Newbie help on MT and CAT
Thread poster: kenhoo

kenhoo
France
Local time: 09:17
May 11, 2010

Dear all,

First, I apologize if this is not in the good section of the forums, there’s so many of them lol

Then, let me explain my trouble.
I recently joined a french young company and we have needs in the translation area.

Currently, we’re thinking of buying a MT solution (probably systran, as it seems to be the most efficient) for every employees, so they can have a rough understanding of documents written in a foreign language or send it to our colleagues who are oversea. We’ll also work with companies to correct the translated files.

And in addition to that, I’ll dedicate myself in translating internal documentation, proposal, etc. even if I’m not a translator but a mechanical engineer…

What could you advice us/me to do ? What do you think of this approach ?

Moreover, by reading different website and proZ, it seems that Systran won’t be very helpful for me as a translator. It is more recommended to use CAT tools. But there’s so many I lost. Trados and Wordfast ( classic or pro??! ) seems very popular though… Could you give me advices ? Why use CAT and not MT ?icon_confused.gif

Thanks a lot !icon_biggrin.gif


 

John Di Rico  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 09:17
Member (2006)
French to English
Get CAT tools May 11, 2010

Dear Kenhoo,

Your best bet is to get a CAT tool. You can download and try Wordfast for free. I recommend this tool as it is user-friendly, inexpensive and gets the job done. Plus, you can use any one of their three tools with the same license (Pro, Classic or Anywhere).

With all three of these tools, you can integrate machine translation into your workflow.

I must warn you, I am totally biased as I train people on these tools. There are lots of other ones out there. Try before you buy and once you've bought, make sure to attend a training!

Good luck,

John
Wordfast Trainer
www.wordfast.fr


 

DZiW
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
IMO May 11, 2010

kenhoo,
I would recommend -

1) a reliable and experienced editor/ proofreader
(to be your guide)

2) idioglossary
(to deal with terminology)

3) CAT
(to deal with repetitives)

4) MT
(to get/ amend the idea)

As far as you're not experienced enough yet I would also suggest posting difficult jobs at ProZ (at least until you feel more confident), so you can have some TM and exp.

Cheers


 

Susan Welsh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:17
Member (2008)
Russian to English
+ ...
check the forums May 11, 2010

The pro's and con's of various CAT tools have been discussed at great length on these forums. You should do a forum search and study up a bit, and then ask your questions. There are MANY tools, ranging in price from zero to many thousands of dollars. All have their advantages and disadvantages. Each of the major tools has its own "support" forum at Proz. So, do some poking around first. Have fun!

 

kenhoo
France
Local time: 09:17
TOPIC STARTER
thanks May 12, 2010

@all : thanks for these info.

@susan : I did but I can't find something objective or clear enough with a good comparison of "pro's & con's"...

@SZiW : I have a "guide". He's bilingual and with a long experience in the IT (our industrie). He's correcting most of my translation for now.

I continue to look at CAT tools and I have new questions :
What's the differences between dictionaries, Trans. Memories, and Trans. Model (systran) ?? What's a "fuzzy match" ?Can a glossary created by a CAT tool be implemented in Systran and the reverse ?
I know dictionaries is just for one word, but the others are just dictionaries of several words/sentences ?

Other people in ProZ, any new comments about my first post ? I'd like to add that I translate mostly word and ppt files.

thx


[Edited at 2010-05-12 08:16 GMT]

[Edited at 2010-05-12 08:31 GMT]


 

DZiW
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
CAT May 12, 2010

Susan is right that your CAT will set direction for your developing (e.g. due to different learning curves, features, nuances etc), so if you post a job remember to ask for both CLEANed and UNCLEANed files for your CAT (or TMX).
(Don't be too shy and learn the terminology used by those inhuman translatorsicon_wink.gif

Also learn about ALIGNMENT (when you have separate original and translated documents) so you can create TMs almost automatically.

Anyway, Point #1 (a reliable and experienced editor/ proofreader) is a must IMO.
Or just find a technical translator who agrees to review your works and who can answer a couple of most important questions.



P.S. Some newbies try to save a penny using a TM and compiling a text of 'non-translated sentences' only. Don't. A distorted context may often be of disservice for YOU.

[Edited at 2010-05-12 09:47 GMT]


 

kenhoo
France
Local time: 09:17
TOPIC STARTER
??? May 12, 2010

DZiW wrote:

both CLEANed and UNCLEANed files for your CAT (or TMX).
...
ALIGNMENT (when you have separate original and translated documents) so you can create TMs almost automatically...


Sorry, but I have no idea what you're talking about...icon_confused.gif I'm not that far in this CAT tools thing... lol


 

Susan Welsh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:17
Member (2008)
Russian to English
+ ...
CATs pro's and con's May 12, 2010

Here are a few of the thousands of threads on this topic. A "cleaned" file is only in the target language; "uncleaned" is bilingual. Some CATs produce both, some don't. That's a fine point that I don't think you need to get into as a beginner.

I'm partial to OmegaT because it's free, it works for me, and it's the only one I really know how to use. I have Across but find it too slow and complicated; I have Wordfast, but have never gotten seriously into using it.

Good luck.

http://www.proz.com/forum/cat_tools_technical_help/147911-the_most_effective_cat_tool_should_a_freelance_translator_buy_them_all.html

http://www.proz.com/forum/cat_tools_technical_help/137675-thinking_of_giving_up_on_wordfast_any_recommendations_on_selecting_another_cat_tool.html

http://www.proz.com/forum/translator_resources/104194-what_cat_tools_are_available.html

http://www.proz.com/forum/translator_resources/121430-which_cat_to_purchase.html

http://www.proz.com/forum/translator_resources/153890-which_free_cat_tool_do_you_advise.html


Susan


[Edited at 2010-05-12 19:19 GMT]


 

kenhoo
France
Local time: 09:17
TOPIC STARTER
I'll read it May 14, 2010

Thanks for all those links, I'll check them right now

 

kenhoo
France
Local time: 09:17
TOPIC STARTER
no automatic translation in CAT tool May 14, 2010

Another question : There is absolutely no automatic translation in CAT tool ?

I'm looking at all those demo videos with those stupid and basic sentences as "That cat is black" and the software never propose any translation, worse you even have to add "cat" to the memory !

So my question is : CAT tools are just tools checking for matches with previous texts, it doesn't offer support with grammatical & statistical automatic translation?


 

Susan Welsh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:17
Member (2008)
Russian to English
+ ...
machine translation May 14, 2010

Machine translation and CATs are two different things, but many CATs are incorporating Google Translate as an optional feature.
Your CAT will only suggest translations (offer a "fuzzy match") if you have put something into the TM (translation memory). There's nothing there until you put it there, from previous jobs, or a TM supplied to you by a client.
I find TMs almost useless, because I do almost no highly repetitive work. The only thing I use them for is the search function in OmegaT, which allows you to search the TM for a word or phrase that you have used in previous jobs. It won't pop up automatically unless there is a high degree of matching between the segments in the new and old job.

You need to learn some basics about these things. Look on Wikipedia under Computer Assisted Translation, Machine Translation.
Look here for my tutorial for CAT Beginners. It's about OmegaT, but many of the introductory principles apply universally:
http://www.omegat.org/en/documentation.html
(It doesn't go into Google Translate, which is a more recent feature of OmegaT, and anyhow not so appropriate for a beginner's tutorial. But the OmegaT users' manual tells about GT.)


 

kenhoo
France
Local time: 09:17
TOPIC STARTER
systran then cat ? May 14, 2010

Thanks again Susan.

Then, how to have a workflow somehow like this :
rough translate with systran, transfert its result in a cat tool, and do post edition to have a good quality translation quickier.
something like this : http://blog.gts-translation.com/2010/03/03/post-editing-machine-translation-using-systran-and-trados/
is it possible with cat tool like wordfast, omegaT, etc. Or is it just with trados?
I'd prefer a free CAT tool if possible... Now, I'm more inclined to use Wordfast, omegaT, swordfish or metatext...


 


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