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General strike against TRADOS and other expensive CAT tools
Thread poster: Thomas Johansson

Annamaria Amik  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:41
Romanian to English
+ ...
Hypocrisy and hypocrisy Mar 7, 2011

Thomas Johansson wrote:

Third, "hypocricy" is a very strong word here. There is no moral inconsistency in having a tool and declining or postponing a job requiring that tool.


Thomas, I don't intend to get into this discussion, so sorry to interrupt (I admit I didn't have the patience to read the entire thread, but I do agree with our colleagues who find this strike quite... unreasonable, to say the least), but I have the feeling that you too find it hypocritical of people to buy the product while they find it unreasonably expensive. It is everybody's *right* to spend their money as they wish, even unreasonably.

I totally agree with Heike, you seem to dismiss any logical arguments saying they are irrelevant. So what actually IS relevant? The fact that YOU are outraged by the prices and everybody else should join you in this Quixotian strike? I too am outraged by how much a Mercedes costs, you know...

And sorry to put it this quasi-socialist way: there are several translators in certain countries who earn a month just slightly more than the price of an "expensive CAT tool" license, yet they save money and buy it because they find it useful for various reasons (if for no other reason, then simply for attracting agencies that require this tool - who are you to judge their decision?). In this light, complaints from Westerners for whom that license is not that much an effort (compared to others) sound just irritating.

And yes, there IS a moral/ethical inconsistency between having a tool and declining to use it for one day - because there is no actual sacrifice in that gesture, but only fuming. Your efforts might sound more authentic if you completely stopped using the tool until the manufacturers cut the prices.
Who knows, your success in that endeavor might determine your colleagues to join efforts and buy you a Trados license (at the price "earned" by your heroic strike)


 

Thomas Johansson  Identity Verified
Peru
Local time: 15:41
English to Swedish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
reply to Annamaria Mar 7, 2011

Annamaria Amik wrote:

I have the feeling that you too find it hypocritical of people to buy the product while they find it unreasonably expensive. It is everybody's *right* to spend their money as they wish, even unreasonably.



No, I don't find it "hypocritical" for a person to buy something (even) if he or she finds it unreasonably expensive. It happens all the time, for all sorts of reasons. And, as you say and with which I agree completely, it is everybody's right to spend their money as they wish, even unreasonably.



I totally agree with Heike, you seem to dismiss any logical arguments saying they are irrelevant.



What on earth do you base that on? Where are all these "logical arguments" that I have "dismissed as irrelevant"? I held that one certain poll (not an argument) would be irrelevant, at least for me, given the nature of this sort of process.



So what actually IS relevant? The fact that YOU are outraged by the prices...



I am not outraged. Why do you think so?



And sorry to put it this quasi-socialist way: there are several translators in certain countries who earn a month just slightly more than the price of an "expensive CAT tool" license, yet they save money and buy it because they find it useful for various reasons (if for no other reason, then simply for attracting agencies that require this tool - who are you to judge their decision?). In this light, complaints from Westerners for whom that license is not that much an effort (compared to others) sound just irritating.



First, I have not "judged" anyone's decision to buy expensive CAT tools. Where did you get that impression from?

Second, I understand your sentiment, but we do have a right to organize actions against unreasonably expensive CAT tools however some people may feel about that.



And yes, there IS a moral/ethical inconsistency between having a tool and declining to use it for one day - because there is no actual sacrifice in that gesture, but only fuming.



I don't follow this. What does sacrifice have to do with consistency? The more sacrifice, the more consistent something is?


 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:41
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Protest against the high price of a free software, I see Mar 8, 2011


Well, in my specific case, I have Wordfast (the free translator version) and will not use it on the day in question.


Smiley

I think this thread now earned its rightful place in the "Lighter side of translation" forum area...


 

QUOI  Identity Verified

Chinese to English
+ ...
Let this man have his strike! Mar 8, 2011

For Christ's sake...

I went to fill up my car this morning and the price of petrol was $1.60/L. So I am thinking of having a strike against petrol. I will take the bus from tomorrow.

I am also going to tell the local Volvo dealer that his car is way too expensive. A square box with a few inflatable bags on four donuts should not be sold for more than $10,00 I reckon. And after that I will visit the local coffee shop to point out that the cost of a cup of coffee is arou
... See more
For Christ's sake...

I went to fill up my car this morning and the price of petrol was $1.60/L. So I am thinking of having a strike against petrol. I will take the bus from tomorrow.

I am also going to tell the local Volvo dealer that his car is way too expensive. A square box with a few inflatable bags on four donuts should not be sold for more than $10,00 I reckon. And after that I will visit the local coffee shop to point out that the cost of a cup of coffee is around 80 cents but the guy sells it for $3, a rip off and disgrace...

[Edited at 2011-03-08 04:42 GMT]
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Heike Behl, Ph.D.  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:41
Member (2003)
English to German
+ ...
:-) Mar 8, 2011

Antipodean wrote:

For Christ's sake...

I went to fill up my car this morning and the price of petrol was $1.60/L. So I am thinking of having a strike against petrol. I will take the bus from tomorrow.

I am also going to tell the local Volvo dealer that his car is way too expensive. A square box with a few inflatable bags on four donuts should not be sold for more than $10,00 I reckon. And after that I will visit the local coffee shop to point out that the cost of a cup of coffee is around 80 cents but the guy sells it for $3, a rip off and disgrace...

[Edited at 2011-03-08 04:42 GMT]


I'm afraid you miss the point. You'll have to wait until one coffee shop gives away free cups of coffee. Then you take one of those cups to the expensive coffee shop and tell them that you're on strike and won't drink the free coffee because their coffee is way too expensive.



 

Jaroslaw Michalak  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 22:41
Member (2004)
English to Polish
One thing is true Mar 8, 2011

While in general I have the same opinions as Katalin, I strongly disagree with one of her points...

I believe that a good waffle machine should be more affordable, costs of development and manufacture be damned. It is a basic human right to get waffled... I mean to get good waffles. Market economy, cute as it is, cannot be an obstruction to that right!


 

Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 22:41
English to Czech
+ ...
:D Mar 8, 2011

Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:

Protest against the high price of a free software, I see


Well, in my specific case, I have Wordfast (the free translator version) and will not use it on the day in question.


Smiley

I think this thread now earned its rightful place in the "Lighter side of translation" forum area...


Thanks for spotting that, Katalin. You've made my day!



[Upraveno: 2011-03-08 10:01 GMT]


 

Stanislav Pokorny  Identity Verified
Czech Republic
Local time: 22:41
English to Czech
+ ...
A poll Mar 8, 2011

Thomas Johansson wrote:

Stanislav Pokorny wrote:

Hello Thomas,
one more thing: did you think about creating a ProZ poll to collect some numbers on how many ProZ members are willing to participate? I think this could be a good idea.


No, I didn't consider this, as I don't think numbers are very relevant at this stage. Things like this usually start small, and then there is a process from there.


I just thought that you might want to know how many people would be actually willing to join your protest and whether it is thus worth investing your time and efforts into that (because if you simply spend your time on nothing, the time wasted may actually earn you a reasonably priced CAT tool already).

Collecting some statistical data before you begin organizing something is always a good start, IMVHO. On the other hand, statistics is irrelevant if one has a philosophy, isn't it?


[Upraveno: 2011-03-08 12:22 GMT]


 

Steven Marzuola (X)
Local time: 15:41
Spanish to English
+ ...
Boycott? You're kidding! Sep 26, 2012

A boycott the way you suggest would be ridiculous. It's the same as what is often suggested here in the USA when gasoline prices are going up: "Let's all get together and not buy gasoline on a certain date. THAT will show those companies how serious we are!"

The oil companies will respond with a collective yawn. And at the end of the month, they will have done the same amount of business. If you want to pay less money for gasoline, then use less gasoline. Take public transportation,
... See more
A boycott the way you suggest would be ridiculous. It's the same as what is often suggested here in the USA when gasoline prices are going up: "Let's all get together and not buy gasoline on a certain date. THAT will show those companies how serious we are!"

The oil companies will respond with a collective yawn. And at the end of the month, they will have done the same amount of business. If you want to pay less money for gasoline, then use less gasoline. Take public transportation, car pool, use a more economical car, walk when you can.

Same for TM programs. If you don't like using them, then don't. Ever. Or do like I do, which is refuse to accept Trados-style pre-translated projects.

And if you don't like the cost, then buy a cheaper one or use the free one (OmegaT).
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Thomas Rebotier  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:41
English to French
ROI on Trados? not really... Apr 18, 2013

Trados gets you more work if you're looking for, but IMO the lower prices cut your $ productivity.


Let me say however that there is fairness in the trade:
(1) Trados was pitched to translators as helping them make a killing (translate faster for same per word)
(2) Trados was pitched to agencies as helping them make a killing (get cheaper translations by using unrealistic fuzzy discount prices)

...so far a sad story, but...

(3) Trados is
... See more
Trados gets you more work if you're looking for, but IMO the lower prices cut your $ productivity.


Let me say however that there is fairness in the trade:
(1) Trados was pitched to translators as helping them make a killing (translate faster for same per word)
(2) Trados was pitched to agencies as helping them make a killing (get cheaper translations by using unrealistic fuzzy discount prices)

...so far a sad story, but...

(3) Trados is pitched to end clients as a way to put pressure on agencies!!! AND
(4) SDL happens to bid to your end clients if you're agency that naively talked about Trados to a big client.

Morale of the story: dine with the Devil, take a long spoon!
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