Glossary answers
Thread poster: Josephine Cassar

Josephine Cassar  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:02
Member (2012)
Italian to English
+ ...
Apr 2, 2013

There have been cases where I do not agree with the answer given, either in the glossary or to Kudoz questions. Seems I am not the only one as to the first point as I saw in one of today's questio & answer. Isn't it a case where a moderator should intervene? I understand giving members the opportunity to determine themselves & also difficult when the asker only has the context, but some answers are either bad English, etc. I wonder if you agree/ disagree and if you have any ideas re:solution.
Thanks and all comments welcome


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Phil Hand  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 11:02
Chinese to English
Someone on the internet is wrong Apr 2, 2013


http://xkcd.com/386/

Remember when Wikipedia started? How everyone was very worried because ordinary people would be allowed to write things on the internet, and they might be wrong!

You've just got to chill out and contribute as best you can.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

neilmac  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 04:02
Spanish to English
+ ...
Exactly Apr 2, 2013

Phil Hand wrote:


http://xkcd.com/386/

Remember when Wikipedia started? How everyone was very worried because ordinary people would be allowed to write things on the internet, and they might be wrong!

You've just got to chill out and contribute as best you can.


Exactly.
I sometimes feel the wrong kudoz answer has been chosen and entered in the glossary, but we need to remember that it is what it is. The glossary is still useful, but proof of the pudding is being able to sort out the wheat from the chaff.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Tony M  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 04:02
Member
French to English
+ ...
Peer comments and glossary comments Apr 2, 2013

It is specifically stated that the role of moderators is not to be "linguistic judges", and so it would be inappropriate for moderators to intervene in such matters. Just because one is a moderator doesn't mean one necessarily knows this or that language or this or that field better than others. However, in the event of a simple mistake in a glossary entry (like an obvious typo, missing accent, etc.), moderators are able to make this sort of minor correction, as long as there is no doubt about it.

Otherwise, if you personally do not agree with any answer, you can submit a peer comment to express your disagreement and the linguistic reasons for it. But a little humility is always in order; just because you may not be familiar with a particular term in a particular context doesn't necessarily mean it is absolutely objectively and categorically wrong.

Should you see a glossary entry made with which you have an objective disagreement, then you can add a peer comment to the glossary entry itself, by clicking on the 'contribute to this entry' button to the top right of the glossary entry; that way, you can make sure your disagreement is noted where it matters, i.e. in the actual glossary entry. It's a pity that this opportunity, and the resulting comments, are not more prominent, as I feel many people may not even be aware of their existence.

But as Phil says, it's also important to keep a healthy perspective on things and "chill out"!

[Edited at 2013-04-02 09:08 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Marie-Helene Dubois  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 04:02
Member (2011)
Spanish to English
+ ...
What you get out is only as good as what is put in Apr 2, 2013

and I think that this is the principle you have to keep in mind when researching terms in glossary entries.
Sometimes it drives me mad when an asker chooses an answer that is clearly wrong but then, the asker by definition didn't know in the first place what the right answer was so this is bound to happen.

I think that it is simply a case of keeping an open mind when researching a term in the glossary and kudoz and understanding that a term can be right or it can be wrong for your purposes so you always have to do your own research once you've found it to establish whether it's the right term for you and your translation.

I don't think that this can be policed in any way as that would open a massive can of worms. After all, who can decide what is 'right' and what is 'wrong' when it comes to translation? And how do they back up this decision?

Cleary what you think is wrong, someone else thought was right or they wouldn't have entered it in the glossary or kudoz.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Teresa Borges
Portugal
Local time: 03:02
Member (2007)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Couldn't agree more! Apr 2, 2013

Marie-Helene Dubois wrote:

and I think that this is the principle you have to keep in mind when researching terms in glossary entries.
Sometimes it drives me mad when an asker chooses an answer that is clearly wrong but then, the asker by definition didn't know in the first place what the right answer was so this is bound to happen.

I think that it is simply a case of keeping an open mind when researching a term in the glossary and kudoz and understanding that a term can be right or it can be wrong for your purposes so you always have to do your own research once you've found it to establish whether it's the right term for you and your translation.

I don't think that this can be policed in any way as that would open a massive can of worms. After all, who can decide what is 'right' and what is 'wrong' when it comes to translation? And how do they back up this decision?

Cleary what you think is wrong, someone else thought was right or they wouldn't have entered it in the glossary or kudoz.


One needs to keep in mind that translation is not an exact science, chill out, keep a healthy perspective and improve the glossary...

[Edited at 2013-04-02 13:56 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
Tiptoeing through minefield Apr 2, 2013

Glossary entries are now the exclusive domain of Asker and/or Answerer. They can enter anything they like and rule 3.7 will stop any warning on the page that the glossary entry is wrong or doubtful.
So as others say, chill out, use it for what it is and keep in mind that surfing around the glossary is like tiptoeing through a minefield. Be very careful.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Josephine Cassar  Identity Verified
Local time: 04:02
Member (2012)
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Chill out and rule 3.7 Apr 2, 2013

Thank you all for the feedback. I know now that I am not the only one to see that some answers are wrong, and understand that moderators cannot intrude. So, will use glossary with care. Gn all

Direct link Reply with quote
 
gad
United States
Local time: 22:02
Member
French to English
I would disagree with a moderator intervening Apr 2, 2013

Tony M wrote:

It is specifically stated that the role of moderators is not to be "linguistic judges", and so it would be inappropriate for moderators to intervene in such matters. Just because one is a moderator doesn't mean one necessarily knows this or that language or this or that field better than others. However, in the event of a simple mistake in a glossary entry (like an obvious typo, missing accent, etc.), moderators are able to make this sort of minor correction, as long as there is no doubt about it.


I agree with this.

Tony M wrote:
Otherwise, if you personally do not agree with any answer, you can submit a peer comment to express your disagreement and the linguistic reasons for it. But a little humility is always in order; just because you may not be familiar with a particular term in a particular context doesn't necessarily mean it is absolutely objectively and categorically wrong.


I agree with this, especially the part about having a little humility. I've seen some people who could benefit from keeping that in mind every once in a long while...


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Steve Kerry  Identity Verified
Local time: 03:02
German to English
A pinch of salt... Apr 2, 2013

All Kudoz answers should be taken with a pinch of salt, as should the results of online dictionaries or searches. Look at the profile and site history of the answerer and it will give you some idea of their competence and credibility.

Steve K.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Balasubramaniam L.  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 08:32
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
kudoz/glossary has a certain purpose, it is not a dictionary Apr 3, 2013

If I understand it correctly, kudoz answers are selected on the yardstick of "the most helpful answer" and not on the yardstick of "the most correct answer". So if an asker finds an answer that is not necessarily correct, helpful in his translation, he can very well choose that answer. Since the asker/answerer gets to put the entry into the glossary, very often a technically incorrect answer can get into the glossary. So before deciding to use kudoz/glossary answers you have to carefully review the context, the explanations given by the various answerers and the discussion entries if there are any.

Of course, apart from this, there are also outright wrong entries going into the glossary, and outright wrong answers getting selected in kudoz. I know of at least one recent case in the Hindi kudoz, where the discussion made it clear which answer is correct, but the asker, either out of ignorance, or out of motives best known to him, chose an answer that was clearly wrong.

There is hardly anything any of us can do about it, who has the time?


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Russell Jones  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:02
Italian to English
Rule 3.7 Apr 3, 2013

writeaway wrote:

Glossary entries are now the exclusive domain of Asker and/or Answerer. They can enter anything they like and rule 3.7 will stop any warning on the page that the glossary entry is wrong or doubtful.


Rule 3.7 only prohibits "Commentary on askers or answerers, and their postings or decisions to post, comments or insinuations concerning an answerer's or asker's experience or profile, his/her decision to post a certain question or answer, grade or close a question in a certain way or make a certain glossary entry, etc."

It does not prohibit linguistically based comments or disagreements.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Tony M  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 04:02
Member
French to English
+ ...
Misunderstanding? Apr 3, 2013

Russell Jones wrote:
It does not prohibit linguistically based comments or disagreements.


I wonder if you are maybe misreading W/A's comment, which was not about 'disagree' peer comments, but the fact that no comment may be made about the choice of answer made nor the resulting glossary entry.

Rule 3.7 prohibits "Commentary on askers or answerers, and their postings or decisions to post, comments or insinuations concerning an answerer's or asker's experience or profile, his/her decision to post a certain question or answer, grade or close a question in a certain way or make a certain glossary entry, etc."

There is a way of adding a 'disagree' to glossary entries, by using the 'Contribute to this entry' button under 'Options' at the right-hand end of the glossary bar; however, this feature seems to be little known and used, and I don't know how/when/where the comments are actually visible?

I think what concerns Writeaway and many other of us is that these potentially helpful comments cannot be made in a way that is prominently visible on the question page.

It's all very well saying that future users need to regard the glossary with some circumspection (as indeed appears only logical with almost any resource!) — but the fact of the matter is that some people are all too ready to cite Google, Linguée, Termium, GDT etc. as if they were some sort of bible, with the 'right' answers set in stone; and they do the same with KudoZ too; worse, they often don't bother to look up the question a glossary entry came from, as others have mentioned above, thus missing out on all the discussion and any potential caveats, etc.

But then again, if people are really that stupid or ignorant, perhaps they deserve whatever they get...

I think (as has also been highlighted above) that one of the real problems is that in many cases, if the Asker needed to ask the question in the first place, it may well indicate a lack of familiarity with the subject matter that will make it impossible for them to make an informed choice of the 'right' answer; hence why peer comments can be helpful, if used in the true spirit intended, rather than as some kind of blunt weapon! But of course future glossary users may well be in the same position themselves, i.e. ill-placed to judge which answer is 'right' or not — this is of course one of the huge pitfalls of people attempting to translate into a language other than their mother tongue!

This is one of the reasons I rarely give 'references' when answering questions (for which I am frequently flamed) — if I answer a question, it is usually on the basis of personal technical or linguistic knowledge, and hence my answer is only intended as a clue for further research, which I fully expect the Asker to do for her/himself; too many people back up (often patently wrong!) answers by swathes of Internet 'references', in the process making it all too clear that they don't actually understand the material themselves either.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Russell Jones  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:02
Italian to English
Maybe Apr 3, 2013

[quote]Tony M wrote:

I wonder if you are maybe misreading W/A's comment, which was not about 'disagree' peer comments, but the fact that no comment may be made about the choice of answer made nor the resulting glossary entry.


I take your point Tony, but to me (as a User, not as a Moderator), this is a fine distinction. Appropriate disagrees can still be entered after the question has been graded - and serve as a warning to subsequent users.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Yasutomo Kanazawa  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:02
English to Japanese
+ ...
Most askers prefer to be pampered Apr 3, 2013

Tony M wrote:

I think (as has also been highlighted above) that one of the real problems is that in many cases, if the Asker needed to ask the question in the first place, it may well indicate a lack of familiarity with the subject matter that will make it impossible for them to make an informed choice of the 'right' answer; hence why peer comments can be helpful, if used in the true spirit intended, rather than as some kind of blunt weapon! But of course future glossary users may well be in the same position themselves, i.e. ill-placed to judge which answer is 'right' or not — this is of course one of the huge pitfalls of people attempting to translate into a language other than their mother tongue!

This is one of the reasons I rarely give 'references' when answering questions (for which I am frequently flamed) — if I answer a question, it is usually on the basis of personal technical or linguistic knowledge, and hence my answer is only intended as a clue for further research, which I fully expect the Asker to do for her/himself; too many people back up (often patently wrong!) answers by swathes of Internet 'references', in the process making it all too clear that they don't actually understand the material themselves either.


I support your idea of answering a KudoZ question based on your personal technical or linguistic knowledge. However, as you wrote above that you often get flamed for not providing references, most askers and most peers tend to enter agrees to answers with lot of links to Google and online dictionaries, where the answerer added notes many times where I sometimes get discouraged from going through all the pasted links and paragraphs added on after few hours or even days.

I too, answer questions with minimum references, since I believe that it is the asker's responsibility to find out what the term s/he's asking really means by the clues (not answers!) given. But the sad reality is that the askers think that it's their privilege to get a straight answer and not only clues to what the term in question is. And that's why many peers who enter comments (especially agrees) do so to the answer with the most pasted links and references.


Direct link Reply with quote
 


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Glossary answers

Advanced search







memoQ translator pro
Kilgray's memoQ is the world's fastest developing integrated localization & translation environment rendering you more productive and efficient.

With our advanced file filters, unlimited language and advanced file support, memoQ translator pro has been designed for translators and reviewers who work on their own, with other translators or in team-based translation projects.

More info »
Déjà Vu X3
Try it, Love it

Find out why Déjà Vu is today the most flexible, customizable and user-friendly tool on the market. See the brand new features in action: *Completely redesigned user interface *Live Preview *Inline spell checking *Inline

More info »



Forums
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search