| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Desperately seeking bilingual EUR-LEX documents Thread poster: Jussi Rosti
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Luca Vaccari 
Italy
Local time: 00:12
Swedish to Italian
+ ...
| Answer from help-desk.... the future will tell! | Apr 2, 2014 |
Dear Sir,
Thank you for your patience up until now.
After having consulted with our internal services, we are very sorry to acknowledge that in your case, the manipulation of the current EUR-Lex forms in order to get to the results you need requires slightly more time and effort than it was prior to the migration.
Unfortunately, it is currently impossible to alter the way the EUR-Lex website need to be manipulated according to your needs, as a lot of variab... See more Dear Sir,
Thank you for your patience up until now.
After having consulted with our internal services, we are very sorry to acknowledge that in your case, the manipulation of the current EUR-Lex forms in order to get to the results you need requires slightly more time and effort than it was prior to the migration.
Unfortunately, it is currently impossible to alter the way the EUR-Lex website need to be manipulated according to your needs, as a lot of variables need to be taken into consideration before we can modify the underlying searching system of EUR-Lex or include any ground-breaking system functionalities.
However, please rest assured that your feedback is carefully noted; our internal services will investigate how we could possibly improve the site in the future.
Please accept our dearest apologies for the ensuing inconveniences.
We hope that this answer is of help. If, however, you need more information, please do not hesitate to contact us again.
For more tips and information see http://twitter.com/eurlex
Kind regards, ▲ Collapse
| | | | Rolf Keller
Germany
Local time: 00:12
English to German
| THE solution for this and similar problems | Apr 2, 2014 |
No need to complain to Eur-Lex:
Multifultor (see my profile) needs just an entry like "http://eur-lex.europa.eu/advanced-search-form.html".
| | | | Luca Vaccari
Italy
Local time: 00:12
Swedish to Italian
+ ...
| Two languages | Apr 2, 2014 |
@Rolf
I'm aware of the search form, and apart from the fact that you always need to scroll and select a lots of items before saying "GO AND SEARCH", you are still not allowed from there to search in two languages at the same time.
I know how to search a word with new eur-lex, find a document, find its translation and then identify the right translation, but it takes several minutes.
With search engine fishing from old eur-lex, it took me less than 10 seconds and m... See more @Rolf
I'm aware of the search form, and apart from the fact that you always need to scroll and select a lots of items before saying "GO AND SEARCH", you are still not allowed from there to search in two languages at the same time.
I know how to search a word with new eur-lex, find a document, find its translation and then identify the right translation, but it takes several minutes.
With search engine fishing from old eur-lex, it took me less than 10 seconds and most of the time I didn't even need to open any document, the search result would be enough.
Regards ▲ Collapse
| | | | Rolf Keller
Germany
Local time: 00:12
English to German
| Eur-Lex is for jurists & politicians, not for translators. So we have to accept it "as is". | Apr 2, 2014 |
viking modena wrote:
I'm aware of the search form, and apart from the fact that you always need to scroll and select a lots of items before saying "GO AND SEARCH" ...
You don't NEED to select a lot of items. You MAY do that.
Anyway, with Multifultor you don't have to do that more than once. The sticking point: You can set up several favourite profiles which are direct accessible via dedicated buttons or hotkeys.
you are still not allowed from there to search in two languages at the same time.
Click one of the hits in the results list – and voilà, you see the new trilingual display.
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Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:12
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
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Hello all,
As somebody else suggested, perhaps it is a very good idea to sign a petition asking the people in charge to do something to improve the search functionality or simply restore the old interface.
I really find it impossible to find a simple term in the so-called "NEW Eur-Lex".
Regards,
Lyudmil
| | | | Luca Tutino
Italy
Member (2002)
English to Italian
+ ...
| A serious mistake | Apr 2, 2014 |
I think that the EU should have the multilingual nature of the Union as one of its main concerns in all their communication efforts. Making changes that might jeopardize the common practices of professional translators should be considered as a bad choice from a EU detached from European people, and remedying to it should be a very high priority.
The quality and the abundance of tools offered by bilingual Canada to EN\FR translators should be taken as a model. For instance IA... See more I think that the EU should have the multilingual nature of the Union as one of its main concerns in all their communication efforts. Making changes that might jeopardize the common practices of professional translators should be considered as a bad choice from a EU detached from European people, and remedying to it should be a very high priority.
The quality and the abundance of tools offered by bilingual Canada to EN\FR translators should be taken as a model. For instance IATE does not offer a fraction of the information and of the quality of Termium and the Language Portal of Canada, that are made available directly by the Government of Canada.
I hope that Linguee will be able to keep their results up to date with the new Eur-Lex documents, but I strongly doubt it. Furthermore Linguee is a private initiative, and I am convinced that this should be assured directly and for free by the EU public institutions.
@Michael
Thank you for your sharing! However Evroterm does not seem to be nearly complete, and most searches that still find good google cached results do not give any results in Evroterm. On the other side WebiText is very nice and helpful, but is very slow, clearly does not search the same corpus as Eur-Lex, and give results that are mostly less relevant and clear.
Luca ▲ Collapse
| | | | Luca Tutino
Italy
Member (2002)
English to Italian
+ ...
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| Use "Quick Search" | Apr 3, 2014 |
Their help desk told me this: Use "Quick Search" in the upper right corner. Put your search terms in quotation marks. This way you will get exact matches. Solved the problem for me.
[Edited at 2014-04-03 08:42 GMT]
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Luca Tutino wrote:
I hope that Linguee will be able to keep their results up to date with the new Eur-Lex documents, but I strongly doubt it. Furthermore Linguee is a private initiative, and I am convinced that this should be assured directly and for free by the EU public institutions.
They will. I'm 99.9% sure they don't get their data from bilingual documents. They harvest each document in every language separately and align them with the software of their choosing (as do I, and as does LF Aligner). This process is slightly easier in the new eur-lex (it is a little easier to access individual documents). They will probably need to update their software to get the documents from the new URLs, but that's not a big deal.
BTW the Commission does make an effort to support translators; they made the DGT-TM and make it available at no cost. They also update it quite regulary with new documents. Eur-lex was not made for translators. Its primary purpose is to make legislation available to those who need to know what rules apply to them. I'm quite impressed that they gave any consideration to translators' needs at all.
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DGT-TM?
Where would I find it?
This would be very useful indeed...
| | | | Luca Tutino
Italy
Member (2002)
English to Italian
+ ...
| It does not really seem to solve it for me | Apr 6, 2014 |
Jan Behnke wrote:
Their help desk told me this: Use "Quick Search" in the upper right corner. Put your search terms in quotation marks. This way you will get exact matches. Solved the problem for me.
[Edited at 2014-04-03 08:42 GMT]
Actually I find it extremely complicated and slow. The steps involved are now four:
1. Put the search terms or string in quick search field
2. Click on one of the exact match links found
3. Select the languages you want to see
4. Click on display
This kind of process makes it impossible to quickly find and compare different translations in various contexts, as it is sometimes necessary in order to get the best possible understanding of an original expression. Earlier we could do it in just one simple step, by putting a search string followed by a filter string in a google search.
Also there are terms that I used to find easily in bilingual documents which seem to have now disappeared for good. Two quick examples: a search for "aanzuivering" does not find anymore the Verordening (EG) nr. 994/2008 van de Commissie which I saved in bilingual display some time ago, and a search for "pleitnotitie" does not find anything, while I have some interesting text named "Conclusions de l'avocat général" recorded on my HD. This might be justified from the point of view of jurists & politicians, yet I think that linguistic concerns should be also considered a key issue in our multilingual community.
It is a real pity that we cannot access anymore these useful resources that are probably still available somewhere.
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Luca Tutino
Italy
Member (2002)
English to Italian
+ ...
| DGT-TM is useful but not comparable with earlier bilingual docs availability | Apr 6, 2014 |
FarkasAndras wrote:
BTW the Commission does make an effort to support translators; they made the DGT-TM and make it available at no cost.
Sure, DGT-TM is certainly a great service, and can be rather useful for us translators too. However it's use during translation with our usual equipment is mostly unpractical because of the size and the design of the files which, if I am not wrong, appear to be more oriented towards MT applications.
| | | | Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:12
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
Luca Tutino wrote: FarkasAndras wrote:
BTW the Commission does make an effort to support translators; they made the DGT-TM and make it available at no cost. Sure, DGT-TM is certainly a great service, and can be rather useful for us translators too. However it's use during translation with our usual equipment is mostly unpractical because of the size and the design of the files which, if I am not wrong, appear to be more oriented towards MT applications.
Hi Luca,
Granted, most CAT tools are not yet able to handle TMs of much size, but there are a few bilingual and multilingual concordancing programs out there that can very easily do so. Have a look at András's TMLookup:
http://www.farkastranslations.com/tmlookup.php
It can handle way more than just the DGT-TMs. I currently have 35 million TUs indexed in it. Very handy for looking stuff up while translating.
Michael
| | | | Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:12
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
Luca Tutino wrote: Jan Behnke wrote:
Their help desk told me this: Use "Quick Search" in the upper right corner. Put your search terms in quotation marks. This way you will get exact matches. Solved the problem for me.
[Edited at 2014-04-03 08:42 GMT] Actually I find it extremely complicated and slow. The steps involved are now four: 1. Put the search terms or string in quick search field 2. Click on one of the exact match links found 3. Select the languages you want to see 4. Click on display This kind of process makes it impossible to quickly find and compare different translations in various contexts, as it is sometimes necessary in order to get the best possible understanding of an original expression. Earlier we could do it in just one simple step, by putting a search string followed by a filter string in a google search. Also there are terms that I used to find easily in bilingual documents which seem to have now disappeared for good. Two quick examples: a search for "aanzuivering" does not find anymore the Verordening (EG) nr. 994/2008 van de Commissie which I saved in bilingual display some time ago, and a search for "pleitnotitie" does not find anything, while I have some interesting text named "Conclusions de l'avocat général" recorded on my HD. This might be justified from the point of view of jurists & politicians, yet I think that linguistic concerns should be also considered a key issue in our multilingual community. It is a real pity that we cannot access anymore these useful resources that are probably still available somewhere.
I tried a search for ‘pleitnotitie’, and the site indeed found nothing. It did, however, find one source with ‘pleitnotities’. I also can’t find ‘Verordening (EG) nr. 994/2008’ with a search for ‘aanzuivering’. It does look like the site is not working properly (yet).
This reminds me of the recent interface overhaul of my favourite (paid) English dictionary site: Oxforddictionaries.com. Before they changed the interface, we were able to search the vast Oxford corpus. Now this is no longer possible. They asked no one, and just removed it. A few of us here on Proz emailed Oxford University Press and complained, but they are not planning to make it work again. This really pisses me off as I used that feature almost daily, and now it is gone. Not really gone, mind you. All the data is still there, but they simply removed our ability to access to it. In my opinion they don’t deserve the data if they are going to remove access to it overnight without a single word of warning. Anyway, straying off topic here;)
Michael
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