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Desperately seeking bilingual EUR-LEX documents
Thread poster: Jussi Rosti

Jussi Rosti  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 19:45
Member (2005)
English to Finnish
+ ...
Mar 25, 2014

Dear colleagues,

After EUR-LEX restructruring, I have hard time trying to find bilingual documents containing specific terms. Do you know how to find them easily? Earlier I used to have immediate access by googling my native language, search term + eur-lex. Now, this takes to removed pages. From the specific search page, I was not able to find bilinguals.


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Kate Chaffer
Italy
Local time: 18:45
Italian to English
Search link Mar 25, 2014

Try here:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/advanced-search-form.html?qid=1395729783578&action=update


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Steven Segaert
Estonia
Local time: 19:45
Member (2012)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Simple search and onwards Mar 25, 2014

Hi Jussi,

Try to do a "simple search" ( http://eur-lex.europa.eu/homepage.html ).

In the results list, you'll see which documents have a html version available (bilingual display does not work when there are only pdf's).

When you click on a result, you'll see the option "Multilingual display".

As an extra option: if you need to see already in the list of search results what languages are available, click 'Change displayed metadata' at the top or the bottom of the result list, and tick the 'Bibliographic details' box. This adds the language codes to the search results.

If you want to go the Google route, you still can. The problem is that the page you are sent to shows the information under the tab "all" of the results page. To access the bilingual options, you need to click the tab "text".

Let me know if this helps you to find what you need!

[Edited at 2014-03-25 07:26 GMT]


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viking modena  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 18:45
Member (2012)
Swedish to Italian
+ ...
Same problem, helpdesk contacted... Mar 25, 2014

Yes, something happened yesterday or so, because my previous searching method (the same as Jussi's) worked until last week.
Much easier to get sentences in the screen and then check/find words without any need to open the actual web page.
This method doesn't work anymore. I've just contacted help-desk and let's see when/what they answer.

The new eur-lex gives the good chance to see three languages, but the disadvantage is that you cannot cut&paste a whole bilingual document and save it as a DOC-file into your computer (pretty useful). I asked help-desk some months ago about what do to, and their answer was to "create a small program that parses the page and extracts each paragraph in each language". If anybody knows how to do it, I'll be glad to know. We are translators, not IT persons!

And I see now, the OLD eur-lex doesn't even exist anymore! That's why my searchings do not give hits.....

Any good help is welcome. Considering that I might search up to 50 words for a document....

And IATE is helpful, but not a good alternative.


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Steven Segaert
Estonia
Local time: 19:45
Member (2012)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Other ways Mar 25, 2014

"but the disadvantage is that you cannot cut&paste a whole bilingual document and save it as a DOC-file into your computer"

I work with MemoQ. What I usually do when I come across an interesting reference document is to download the html versions of the text and add them to a corpus (which basically creates an aligned version that can be used in your project "on the fly"). I find html works best for that purpose.

In Studio, you probably could do an alignment and make a project TM on that basis ( http://www.proz.com/forum/sdl_trados_support/219047-alignment_of_doc_docx_files_with_sdl_studio_2011.html )

"And IATE is helpful, but not a good alternative."

I personally find the IATE results to be more consolidated and offer more background than most of the Eur-lex results. Terms are (usually) only added to IATE after some consideration, while Eur-lex translations follow the translate+proofread route. IATE also includes context. But then again, perhaps I'm just not used to using Eur-lex for term searches.

Linguee.com also offers eur-lex results, which is handy for a first search.


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Andrea Jarmuschewski  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 18:45
Member (2007)
French to German
+ ...
Blog post Mar 25, 2014

This blog post from the TermCoord team explains the way the new website works:

http://termcoord.eu/2014/03/discover-new-eur-lex/

Hope this helps.


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viking modena  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 18:45
Member (2012)
Swedish to Italian
+ ...
Thanks! Mar 25, 2014

@Steven

Linguee.com seems to give the type of results that I use the most, so thank you very much! So far, this can be a good solution.
I'm aware of IATA's "power", but it's always a matter of "how many hits" vs. "time spent for searching".

I'm a Studio user and your suggestion to enter things into a TM can certainly be useful, provided you then use a CAT tool. In a TM/exported TM, it is though difficult to see some formatting that you must follow (e.g. that sentence in the directive ends with fulls top, semicolon or whatever in just "your" language and in "that point"). Therefore, an aligned Word file has been more useful, in particular when you have to take several passages into account that are close to each other (and do not necessarily contain the same words - searches in TM are most of the time word based).
But I can take HTML-files, enter them into word charts and then make a bilingual or trilingual file out of them.

But I'm very grateful for your help.

So far, no reply from the helpdesk!


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FarkasAndras
Local time: 18:45
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Offline Mar 25, 2014

I was an occasional user of the bilingual display option on eur-lex like many others here, but overall I prefer consulting the data offline. There are a couple of different ways to get large chunks of EU legislation and other texts as a TM/sentence-aligned corpus.
The best known are the DGT-TM and the Europarl TM. You can try and import these to your CAT of choice, but most CATs can't handle such a large amount of data very well.
Apsic xbench works reasonably well up to a point if you have a lot of RAM, but it has its limitations.
Here's an open source software tool I wrote for running concordance searches on such massive databases: TMLookup.
Depending on your source data and how you import it, it is possible to create multilingual databases (search for a German term and show English, French, Italian and Spanish translations all side by side). In some scenarios you can also view (and export) full documents for context.

By the way, it looks like the eur-lex transition also involved removing the webpages that LF Aligner relied on for collecting EU documents. I will have to update the program with the new URLs.

[Edited at 2014-03-25 13:39 GMT]


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viking modena  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 18:45
Member (2012)
Swedish to Italian
+ ...
TM and Helpdesk Mar 25, 2014

@Andras
Thanks for suggestions. TM from DGT contain though "ONLY" directives, regulations and so, and NOT texts from Court of Justice (actually the ones I need the most).

@Everybody
UNUSEFUL answer from Helpdesk..... I've now sent them a couple of screendumps, so MAYBE they understand our needs better. I think they took me for somebody who needs a directive text a year.

Let's hope!
Luca

Thank you for contacting the EUR-Lex Helpdesk.

The multilingual display is in fact now much easier to set up in the new EUR-Lex than it was in the old EUR-Lex:

Please open a bibliographical notice of a document by clicking on its link as usual; you will then be able to view up to 3 different languages by setting them up in the "Multilingual display" drop-downs:

However, please note that, through a known bug, most consolidated versions of documents do not possess an HTML file; which is necessary for the multilingual display. Thus, we recommend you to search for any other kind of document if your search is related to the translation of terms.

Please be also aware that our internal services are already working on a fix to this issue, we hope the problem will be solved in the foreseeable future. Up until then, we recommend to use the following link, which is predefined to only include the "Legislation" domain, which is unaffected by this problem, in order to search for documents which can be displayed in multilingual display:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/redirect-advanced-search-form.html?DTS_DOM=EU_LAW&DTS_SUBDOM=LEGISLATION&locale=en

Furthermore, we strongly advise users not to search via Google for any document in EUR-Lex; as the indexing of newer webpages in Google takes some time and the bilingual display is not a separate webpage anymore, but is imbedded in the bibliographic notice of the original document.

We hope that this answer is of help. If, however, you need more information, please do not hesitate to contact us again.


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Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:45
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
WeBiText Mar 25, 2014

Not sure how much of it is indexed, but WeBiText has a nice bilingual concordancer that is plugged into the EUR-lex database: http://www.webitext.com/

The changed interface has also affected people searching via IntelliWebSearch and memoQ's built in web search.

See:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/IntelliWebSearch-l/conversations/messages/1858
+
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/memoQ/conversations/messages/36380

Michael


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FarkasAndras
Local time: 18:45
English to Hungarian
+ ...
more Mar 25, 2014

viking modena wrote:

@Andras
Thanks for suggestions. TM from DGT contain though "ONLY" directives, regulations and so, and NOT texts from Court of Justice (actually the ones I need the most).

You can find court documents and other texts elsewhere if you look hard enough. The DGT-TM and the Europarl corpus are the best known resources but they are not the only ones.

viking modena wrote:
@Everybody
UNUSEFUL answer from Helpdesk..... I've now sent them a couple of screendumps, so MAYBE they understand our needs better. I think they took me for somebody who needs a directive text a year.


Thanks for sharing their response.


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Noe Tessmann  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:45
English to German
+ ...
Pushing for translator friendliness Mar 26, 2014

Dear colleagues,

maybe we should push for more translator friendliness of the EUR Lex websites. Making a petition or something like this. It's one of our main ressource. They must be aware of that as MT relies mainly on the EU corpuses.

Any ideas?

KR

Noe


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FarkasAndras
Local time: 18:45
English to Hungarian
+ ...
extract Mar 26, 2014

viking modena wrote:


The new eur-lex gives the good chance to see three languages, but the disadvantage is that you cannot cut&paste a whole bilingual document and save it as a DOC-file into your computer (pretty useful). I asked help-desk some months ago about what do to, and their answer was to "create a small program that parses the page and extracts each paragraph in each language". If anybody knows how to do it, I'll be glad to know. We are translators, not IT persons!

From what I can see, you can copy-paste it, but instead of a table, you get running text.
I could probably write software that extracts the text from the page and generates a proper HTML table or an excel sheet. It shouldn't be too difficult, but it's probably not worth the trouble. It would be another software tool you have to launch and copy-paste the URL or the CELEX number into. At that point, you might as well just use LF Aligner (once it's updated with the new URLs). It will probably generate better results (in the eurlex bilingual/trilingual view, columns are more likely to be out of sync).


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Nell75
Sweden
searching entire phrase does not work?! Mar 28, 2014

Hello,
I just signed up here just because I am desperately trying to understand how to make advanced searches for entire phrases in Eurlex. I am mainly translating from French to Swedish and no matter what phrase (or couple of words) I enter, the hits I get are not relevant. What I mean is that if I enter for example (to keep it simple) "mais attendu" in the field "this exact wording or phrase"(in this example I chose EU-case law and limit to dates between 1/1/2000 until today), I get a large number of hits. However, when I search a document in the list (using cmd+F), that same phrase is not found. I never had this problem with the old eurlex. Someone else experienced this?


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Rolf Keller
Germany
Local time: 18:45
English to German
Does phrase search work in Eur-Lex? Mar 29, 2014

Nell75 wrote:

What I mean is that if I enter for example (to keep it simple) "mais attendu" in the field "this exact wording or phrase"(in this example I chose EU-case law and limit to dates between 1/1/2000 until today), I get a large number of hits. However, when I search a document in the list (using cmd+F), that same phrase is not found.


Strange. I just tried that and got no hits at all:

"Search criteria
Domain: EU law and related documents, Subdomain: EU case-law, Date: All dates, From (or exact date): 01/01/2000, Search language: French, this exact wording or phrase: mais attendu, In: Title and text

No results found"

What confirmation feedback did you get in the "search criteria" box?


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