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How can I hook up Google translate to Wordfast?
Thread poster: JazykBrno

JazykBrno
Czech Republic
Local time: 05:34
Czech to English
+ ...
Apr 27, 2009

Hi,

I've used wordfast on about 3 projects so far and even though I only use about 1/100th of its capabilities it has already speeded things up for me no end.

I'm pretty sure I'll purchase the license when I get paid for the job I just finished... but before I do I'd like to know about hooking it up to google translate.

I've seen people discussing it.. at the moment I use google translate on the odd sentence when my mind draws a blank - especially when it comes to tough little translation nuggets... but I was wondering how you go about automating it so that it finds it itself.

I can't figure out how to do it, there doesn't seem to be anything in the manual, despite hearing people chat about it - I'm not sure it's even opssible..

Thanks.

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2009-04-27 13:38 GMT]


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Jeff Allen  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 05:34
Multiplelanguages
+ ...
More on MT, Google Translate and Wordfast Classic and Pro May 9, 2009

Robin Smith wrote:

Hi,

....I'd like to know about hooking it up to google translate.

I've seen people discussing it.. at the moment I use google translate on the odd sentence when my mind draws a blank - especially when it comes to tough little translation nuggets... but I was wondering how you go about automating it so that it finds it itself.

I can't figure out how to do it, there doesn't seem to be anything in the manual, despite hearing people chat about it - I'm not sure it's even opssible..



Hi,
I've provided a question on this recently as well, but more focused on the MT systems that have plug-ins with Word:

http://www.proz.com/forum/wordfast_support/134614-mt_access_mode_in_wfc_553_and_higher.html

This feature for MS Word plug-ins for MT cannot be in Wordfast Pro 2.0 based on formats that it supports. No longer Word-based.

See the description of accessing the MT access mode from the manual at:

http://www.proz.com/forum/wordfast_support/86005-mt_with_wordfast_and_mac.html

1. Check the "Menu, sub-menu for MT... " checkbox.
2. In the textbox next to it, enter the menu and submenu which, in Ms-Word, are used to translate a selection. This could be:
Translate,Selection or Systran,Translate or Translate,Sentence etc.
Do not enter a space after the comma. The comma is a delimiter between the two menus. If you work on tagged files with an MT package that does not support tags, check the "Remove tags" option.
3. Close Wordfast. In Ms-Word, test your translation package over a short sentence to see if it's correctly setup and running.

Also:

Workflow in Wordfast and Invisible Machine Translator
http://www.condak.net/clanky/ijt/MT-workflow.pdf


I'm also trying to get more details on linking WFClassic and WFPro to Google and other online MT portals.



[Edited at 2009-05-09 23:55 GMT]


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 05:34
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Is Google Translate better than you? May 10, 2009

Robin Smith wrote:
I've seen people discussing it.. at the moment I use google translate on the odd sentence when my mind draws a blank - especially when it comes to tough little translation nuggets... but I was wondering how you go about automating it so that it finds it itself.


Hm... If the sentence is particularly difficult, I don't see how Google Translate can be of any help, as it misinterprets even the simplest sentences... I don't want to sound harsh, but are you sure Google Translate is a tool a professional translator should be needing?


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 05:34
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
An example... May 10, 2009

My sentence "If the sentence is particularly difficult, I don't see how Google Translate can be of any help, as it misinterprets even the simplest sentences" was translated as:
- "Si la sentencia es especialmente difícil, no veo cómo Google Translate pueden ser de cualquier ayuda, ya que mal interpreta la historia de las penas, incluso la más simple".

It means "If the court ruling is particularly difficult, I don't see how Google Translate can (in plural, they) can be of any help, as it misinterprets the history of rulings, even the simplest one".

If Google Translate does not know what a "sentence" is... how can it be of any help to you? Please explain.


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JazykBrno
Czech Republic
Local time: 05:34
Czech to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
thanks. May 10, 2009

Jeff Allen wrote:

Robin Smith wrote:

Hi,

....I'd like to know about hooking it up to google translate.

I've seen people discussing it.. at the moment I use google translate on the odd sentence when my mind draws a blank - especially when it comes to tough little translation nuggets... but I was wondering how you go about automating it so that it finds it itself.

I can't figure out how to do it, there doesn't seem to be anything in the manual, despite hearing people chat about it - I'm not sure it's even opssible..



Hi,
I've provided a question on this recently as well, but more focused on the MT systems that have plug-ins with Word:

http://www.proz.com/forum/wordfast_support/134614-mt_access_mode_in_wfc_553_and_higher.html

This feature for MS Word plug-ins for MT cannot be in Wordfast Pro 2.0 based on formats that it supports. No longer Word-based.

See the description of accessing the MT access mode from the manual at:

http://www.proz.com/forum/wordfast_support/86005-mt_with_wordfast_and_mac.html

1. Check the "Menu, sub-menu for MT... " checkbox.
2. In the textbox next to it, enter the menu and submenu which, in Ms-Word, are used to translate a selection. This could be:
Translate,Selection or Systran,Translate or Translate,Sentence etc.
Do not enter a space after the comma. The comma is a delimiter between the two menus. If you work on tagged files with an MT package that does not support tags, check the "Remove tags" option.
3. Close Wordfast. In Ms-Word, test your translation package over a short sentence to see if it's correctly setup and running.

Also:

Workflow in Wordfast and Invisible Machine Translator
http://www.condak.net/clanky/ijt/MT-workflow.pdf


I'm also trying to get more details on linking WFClassic and WFPro to Google and other online MT portals.



[Edited at 2009-05-09 23:55 GMT]


Thanks for this, this is excellent. I'm going to try it out now. I have read somewhere that this functionality doesn't work on Macs so we'll have to see how it works...


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JazykBrno
Czech Republic
Local time: 05:34
Czech to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
to speed up the workflow. May 10, 2009

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

Robin Smith wrote:
I've seen people discussing it.. at the moment I use google translate on the odd sentence when my mind draws a blank - especially when it comes to tough little translation nuggets... but I was wondering how you go about automating it so that it finds it itself.


Hm... If the sentence is particularly difficult, I don't see how Google Translate can be of any help, as it misinterprets even the simplest sentences... I don't want to sound harsh, but are you sure Google Translate is a tool a professional translator should be needing?


this is a bit trolly, Tomas.

But to answer your question, how quickly you can translate is affected by the recall time, even in your own native language you might stuggle for a few minutes thinking of a synomym for something. which is why crosswords are so popular.

By having an automated "bad" translation on hand - it speeds up the process of translating no end. I often have a google translated version beside the version I'm working on - every sentence needs changing, every single one, and some sentences are so wrong that it's not helpful, but it does speed things up incredibly... it's frustrating sometimes just sitting there looking at a word you know perfectly well and not being able to recall the best translation for the context.


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Jeff Allen  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 05:34
Multiplelanguages
+ ...
Google Translate / WFClassic / Mac May 10, 2009

Robin,

the procedure I quoted from:
http://www.proz.com/forum/wordfast_support/86005-mt_with_wordfast_and_mac.html

also stipulates that it is not possible on Mac platform.

Jeff



[Edited at 2009-05-10 22:00 GMT]


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Jeff Allen  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 05:34
Multiplelanguages
+ ...
changes in translation of "sentence" based on statistical analysis May 10, 2009

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

My sentence "If the sentence is particularly difficult, I don't see how Google Translate can be of any help, as it misinterprets even the simplest sentences" was translated as:
- "Si la sentencia es especialmente difícil, no veo cómo Google Translate pueden ser de cualquier ayuda, ya que mal interpreta la historia de las penas, incluso la más simple".

It means "If the court ruling is particularly difficult, I don't see how Google Translate can (in plural, they) can be of any help, as it misinterprets the history of rulings, even the simplest one".

If Google Translate does not know what a "sentence" is... how can it be of any help to you? Please explain.



It is very important to note that Google Translate is a "statistical-based" MT system, which is culling all Google linguistic resources in parallel to determine the best guess at the translation. And it is indeed interesting that GT determines "sentence" to be the judicial meaning of the term in both contexts.
However, try changing it slightly to
"If the full sentence...
"If the entire sentence...
etc.

And this shows how the translation changes based on how the processors are finding these variations across the data.

I've explained more about Google and the statistical-based MT systems at:
http://www.proz.com/forum/translator_resources/100328-machine_translation:_your_experience_with_the_various_mt_programmes_state_of_play-page2.html#998639


This is exactly the reason why I dissuade professional translators from simply linking to Google Translate, but rather to use the installed versions of MT software which allow for terminology customization so that the "linguistic" concept of "sentence" can be separated from the "judicial" concept and then chosen to prefer one or the other across the content you want to translate.

You cannot customize Google Translate, but you can customize terminology for nearly all commercial Professional and Expert versions of MT software.


Jeff

[Edited at 2009-05-10 22:17 GMT]


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 05:34
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
The right word... May 11, 2009

Robin Smith wrote:
By having an automated "bad" translation on hand - it speeds up the process of translating no end. I often have a google translated version beside the version I'm working on - every sentence needs changing, every single one, and some sentences are so wrong that it's not helpful, but it does speed things up incredibly... it's frustrating sometimes just sitting there looking at a word you know perfectly well and not being able to recall the best translation for the context.


I understand. However, I think that finding the best translation for the context is the result of experience and knowledge of the matter at hand. Google Translate can indeed hold five hundred possible translations for similar sentences, but its proposals will always be statistical. It's like asking 500 people (experts and non experts, all mixed) how to translate your sentence. Each person will come back with a translation depending on their level and field of expertise, and only a few will contain the right terms, so they won't appear in Google Translate's result...

To me, using Google Translate as a reference instead of good sources for the field you are working on (yes, those things grandpa used, with lots of words in them, in a rather bulky book!) is like playing with a gun. Sorry!


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sylvie malich
Germany
Local time: 05:34
German to English
Sorry, but I have to agree. May 11, 2009

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

I don't want to sound harsh, but are you sure Google Translate is a tool a professional translator should be needing?


To me, using Google Translate as a reference instead of good sources for the field you are working on (yes, those things grandpa used, with lots of words in them, in a rather bulky book!) is like playing with a gun. Sorry! [/quote]

Well said and not trolly in the least. Learn the basics first, then go into business.

smiley,
sylvie


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 05:34
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Trolly May 11, 2009

Robin Smith wrote:
this is a bit trolly, Tomas.


I did not have a good dictionary at home so I checked Google Translate to see whether it could translate this sentence. It could not. No meaningful translation for "trolly" or "troll" as a verb.

Now, my dictionary says that "to troll" means:
- "To make a conscious attempt to provoke controversy or disagreement on the Internet."

Is expressing an opinion "a conscious attempt to provoke controversy"? It is simply a fact that Google Translate cannot dream of reaching the abilities of a professional translator. We all translators agree, and customers agree or they would be using Google Translate instead of paying for our services. What's the controversy? Maybe Google Translate it helps you save some typing, but that is all it can do for a professional translator I reckon...


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JazykBrno
Czech Republic
Local time: 05:34
Czech to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Original Question May 11, 2009

The original question related to a functionality of wordfast. Your response did not in anyway address the question, moreover the implication is that I'm somehow a sub-standard translator for using a dictionary tool.

I took it personally; since you had no valid point about the original question I assumed you were trying to insult me - I may have overreacted.


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Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:34
Member (2004)
English to Italian
yes, Tomás... May 11, 2009

it was a"trolly" remark because you interevened highjacking the post... the OP was only asking how to link Wordfast to Google Traslate, not to get a sermon about how bad GT is... having said that, I'm for freedom of speech...

edited for mispelling Tomás's name...

[Edited at 2009-05-11 12:19 GMT]


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 05:34
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
That is true! May 11, 2009

Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL wrote:
it was a"trolly" remark because you interevened highjacking the post... the OP was only asking how to link Wordfast to Google Traslate, not to get a sermon about how bad GT is... having said that, I'm for freedom of speech...


Indeed you are right Giovanni. Sorry folks!


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Jeff Allen  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 05:34
Multiplelanguages
+ ...
Google Translate is not doing TM segment matching like a TM tool. May 11, 2009

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
Google Translate can indeed hold five hundred possible translations for similar sentences, but its proposals will always be statistical. It's like asking 500 people (experts and non experts, all mixed) how to translate your sentence. Each person will come back with a translation depending on their level and field of expertise, and only a few will contain the right terms, so they won't appear in Google Translate's result...


Tomás,

This is not quite how a statistical MT system (SBMT) works. What you are referring to is Example-based MT (EMBT), which is basically what we refer to in the professional translation community as Translation Memory. EBMT/TM is a storage device of existing translations, with the possibility of conducting pattern matching of the chunks of the segments and setting percentage thresholds to accept or reject the matches. The ability to handle multiple referential TM segments (the idea of 500 different translations of a sentence) is something that has been implemented, but mainly by industrial users of multi-TM engine set-ups.
SBMT is a different beast. It is not the case of storing up 2, 3, 4, 500 translations of the same content, but rather it is statistically crawling through all of the content (monolingual and bilingual) and identifying a translation of entire segments, chunks, terms and words, from the statistical probability of the frequency of what it finds. It is usually working at the n-gram level (the character level), by combinations of bi-grams and tri-grams (2 and 3 character sequences). This does not process at a sequential, linear level (as the TM systems do), but in a transversal way.

Google Translate is a pure SBMT engine. The few commercially sold SBMT systems focus on training the system on existing parallel TM content + as much other monolingual and bilingual content as possible. So they mix EBMT/TM with SBMT to override and thus fine-tune the statistical analysis. To my knowledge, Google Translate does not do this.

This is why the commercial (and industry developed) SBMT systems, customized with content from the customer (and there are some installations with significant amounts of content) have produced very good output quality.

Google Translate is a general purpose "as-is" SBMT system, and works best on general texts. Once you get into texts with any specific terminology that has low statistical frequency, then it produces lower quality output.

So, using a TM system like Wordfast to call a general purpose SBMT system like Google, will only produce decent output for general texts. And as Google cannot be customized by the user, then the "as-is" nature of Google's MT system won't let you improve the quality.

I'll answer in another post how Wordfast specifically implemented the MT plug-ins.

Jeff


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