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How many Wordfasts now?
Thread poster: Samuel Murray

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 00:48
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English to Afrikaans
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May 12, 2009

Okay, so now there is yet another horse in the Wordfast stable, called "Wordfast Pro Plus". This leads me to wonder what the full stable currently looks like. The Wordfast web site doesn't contain a matrix with all the various features and prices, so please correct me if I'm wrong here:

Products in the Wordfast stable:
* WFC (Wordfast Classic)
* WFP (Wordfast Pro)
* WFP+ (Wordfast Pro Plus)
* VLTM (Very Large TM)
* Wordfast Server
* PlusTools

You can buy all of these including WFP+ or excluding WFP+. The buying options are:

1. Wordfast Translation Studio Minus, which consists of:
* WFC (Wordfast Classic)
* WFP (Wordfast Pro)
* PlusTools
* VLTM
* WF Server
Price: EUR 300 (or EUR 150 for poor countries)

2. Wordfast Translation Studio Plus, which consists of:
* the entire Wordfast Translation Studio
* WFP+ (Wordfast Pro Plus)
Price: Presumably about EUR 600-700

Do I understand this correctly?


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Epameinondas Soufleros  Identity Verified
Greece
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That's ridiculous? May 12, 2009

Wordfast Pro Plus? That's the dumbest idea I've ever heard. And it costs all that money for nothing. What is going on? Have those people gone completely nuts?

[Edited at 2009-05-12 20:15 GMT]


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
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Pro Plus is not "money for nothing", though May 12, 2009

Epameinondas Soufleros wrote:
Wordfast Pro Plus? That's the dumbest idea I've ever heard. And it costs all that money for nothing.


Well, Pro Plus does give some added value to translators capable of extracting such value from it. I have no problem with them developing such a tool, although I have my doubts about their complicated and confusing naming scheme.


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Sergei Leshchinsky  Identity Verified
Ukraine
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Still looks nutsy... May 12, 2009

* Screwdriver Classic
* Screwdriver Pro
* Screwdriver Pro Plus
* Very Large Screwdriver Tips Set
* Screwdriver Server
* ScrewdriverTools

I need to hang a towel. I need to tighten a windowsill. What kind of tool do I need?
Why don't they produce ONE good tool to cater every need at some exact and unambiguous price?

If taken generally, translation is translation... it sometimes involves everything...

Why? How do they know I will never happen to be in the need of some feature, not supplied in 'Pro', but available in 'Pro Plus'? Why not stuff it full and let the people choose...
There are features that you need just once but you will pay any price to have when you need it.

And here we come to Tr... (oops)...


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
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Personally I prefer separate tools May 12, 2009

Sergei Leshchinsky wrote:
* Screwdriver Classic
* Screwdriver Pro
* Screwdriver Pro Plus
* Very Large Screwdriver Tips Set
* Screwdriver Server
* ScrewdriverTools
Why don't they produce ONE good tool to cater every need at some exact and unambiguous price?


I think there are practical reasons for not having a single tool, and some people do prefer separate tools. The practical reasons include the fact that Screwdriver Classic works on both Windows and Mac, but Screwdriver Server only works on Windows, so it is simpler to keep them as two separate screwdrivers. Screwdriver Pro works on Windows, Mac and Linux, so again it is a separate screwdriver. A single tool that does everything tends to do nothing well. As for the Very Large Screwdriver Tips Set, well, this is a web-service and not a desktop tool so it can't be fully integrated with either Classic or Pro screwdrivers. And ScrewdriverTools is for cleaning your screwdrivers (although I guess some people might want self-cleaning tools).

Why? How do they know I will never happen to be in the need of some feature, not supplied in 'Pro', but available in 'Pro Plus'? Why not stuff it full and let the people choose...


Here you have a point. The description of WFP+ isn't very clear.

[Edited at 2009-05-12 21:24 GMT]


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esperantisto  Identity Verified
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English to Russian
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Don’t you really understand? May 13, 2009

Sergei Leshchinsky wrote:

Why don't they produce ONE good tool to cater every need…


Because they can’t. Nobody can produce ONE good tool for every need! Screwdriver Classic and Screwdriver Pro are both screwdrivers, yes, but developed by different people for different groups of users with different needs.


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Sergei Leshchinsky  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 01:48
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English to Russian
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So, why... May 13, 2009

... don't they offer a SAP-like service of assembling a set of screwdrivers on-line (with each piece having its price) with the subsequent download of the whole custom package?
Everybody will be happy this way.

Idea 1.
As to the screwdrivers made by other manufacturers... Many of them, like those starting with 'Tra...' and 'Lion...' offer toolboxes that are not single tools.
When you install the package it has many shortcuts in the 'Programs' folder and you can launch them separately, unlike this Screwdriver, which need to be started as a framework to select the tool you need then.

Most of the time such differentiation is 'false differentiation', so to say 'internal competition' to get more buyers.

Idea 2.
Concerning the tools used. I still use Screwdriver_4.22 for minor and simple jobs.
I like the alignment tool (thought it needs 'good' input files). Sometimes I use ScrewdriverTools even for the tasks that can be accomplished using the synonymic Tr..s/Logo..t options, because 'I just like it'...

[Редактировалось 2009-05-13 07:42 GMT]


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Kristyna Marrero  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:48
Clarification on Wordfast Products May 14, 2009

Samuel,

I appreciate your continued feedback and support. I'll attempt to shed some light on the various Wordfast products:

Currently if you are an existing Wordfast Classic (WFC) license holder, you are entitled to Wordfast Pro (WFP) for free, making you already a Wordfast Translation Studio customer. If you are not a existing WFC customer, then for €300 you can become a Wordfast Translation Studio customer. You cannot own WFP and WFC individually as they are a package; if you own one, you own both.

For €300, Wordfast Translation Studio includes:
- Wordfast Classic (WFC):
Our original program designed for translators preferring to work in an MS Word environment.
- Wordfast Pro (WFP):
A stand-alone multiplatform (Windows, Mac, Linux) TM tool that works with filters to handle more file formats and provides a basic freelance level of batch analysis (up to 20 files).

- Access to our VLTM Project (Very Large Translation Memory):
Here, a license holder can leverage even more content from a very large public TM, or set up a private workgroup where they can share TMs among translators they are collaborating with. To the best of our knowledge, this is the most affordable and accessible form of server-based TM that translators can use (all one needs to have is a desktop license).

- Plus Tools
A set of free tools designed to help WFC translators perform specific advanced functions such as text extraction and alignment.

Wordfast also offers these additional products to increase productivity and make the translation process more efficient:

- Wordfast Server
This TM server application is designed for agencies and corporate translation departments who, for various reasons, wish to host their TMs on a server. WF Server (WFS) allows linguistic resources located anywhere in the world to have real-time access to one or more Translation Memories. Pricing is dependent upon the number of simultaneously connecting users.

- Wordfast Pro Plus
For €250 extra*, you can upgrade your copy of WFP to WFP Plus. This removes the file limitation to enable unrestricted batch processing, gives users access to our powerful Extract Frequent Segments feature, and also provides advanced TM administration functionality typically required by translation agencies or corporate translation departments. Some freelance translators may also wish to upgrade to gain this increased functionality.

* €250 is a special introductory price offered to users who upgrade their Wordfast Pro version before June 30, 2009. The regular price of WFP Plus will be €300.

- Wordfast Anywhere**
Currently a beta product, this browser-based TM tool allows translators to store their TMs in a private, password protected area on centralized server. It is designed to free translators from their desktops and even carrying their laptops. Wordfast customers will be able to use Wordfast on their projects anywhere they can work on a browser.

**Decisions on pricing, release date, etc. are not yet set, but will be forthcoming as the product draws closer to launch.

I sincerely hope this description helps everyone to better understand the various products that we offer. Naturally, we believe that we provide the most powerful suite of products for the lowest price, making us the highest value option in TM technology, but that of course is up to our customers and the market as a whole to decide.

Best regards,

Kristyna


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
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Some comments May 14, 2009

Kristyna Marrero wrote:
Wordfast also offers these additional products to increase productivity and make the translation process more efficient:

- Wordfast Server
- Wordfast Pro Plus
- Wordfast Anywhere**


Aah, so Wordfast Server is not part of or included in the Wordfast Translation Studio. Tis a pity the Wordfast web site is not so clear about this. The web site certainly creates the impression that Wordfast Server is included in the studio (and there is no mention on the web site in a prominent location that its pricing must be negotiated with Wordfast LLC on a per-person basis).

- Wordfast Pro Plus
The regular price of WFP Plus will be €300.


Thanks for letting us know. Is there a demo version of WFP Plus available?


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Kristyna Marrero  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:48
Wordfast Pro Plus May 14, 2009

Hi Samuel,

Thanks for the feedback. I will work to make the website more clear in regards to our product offerings.

We do not offer a demo mode for Wordfast Pro Plus. When you upgrade, the 20 file limitation is removed and you are able to extract frequent text from an unlimited number of files. You also get a TM administration module for automated TM maintenance, but there is no demo version available.

Sincerely,

Kristyna

[Edited at 2009-05-14 18:45 GMT]


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
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20 file limit May 15, 2009

Kristyna Marrero wrote:
When you upgrade, the 20 file limitation is removed...


Where would one find this limit?


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juvera  Identity Verified
Local time: 23:48
English to Hungarian
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ONE good tool - forgot one very important factor May 15, 2009

esperantisto wrote:

Sergei Leshchinsky wrote:
Why don't they produce ONE good tool to cater every need…


Because they can’t. Nobody can produce ONE good tool for every need! Screwdriver Classic and Screwdriver Pro are both screwdrivers, yes, but developed by different people for different groups of users with different needs.


I entirely agree with esperantisto's response to a simplistic question, however you forgot perhaps the most important factor in the "production" - development - of these tools: time.

It takes time to develop a product which is well thought out and serves its target audience well, and not surprisingly results in variations, but the requirements of users change as well, necessitating a different approach, an improved or different tool - in time.
New ideas or new technology would also impact on the form, character, essence, properties, qualities etc. of the product - in time.

What was all right yesterday, may not be sufficient tomorrow. You may not even realise it, but somebody else might, and it gives them an impetus for adding a new facet to the existing tool, or developing a new one, or at least bring it to the attention of those who can do it.


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Jeff Allen  Identity Verified
France
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linguistic resources to access WFS May 18, 2009

Kristyna Marrero wrote:

- Wordfast Server
This TM server application is designed for agencies and corporate translation departments who, for various reasons, wish to host their TMs on a server. WF Server (WFS) allows linguistic resources located anywhere in the world to have real-time access to one or more Translation Memories. Pricing is dependent upon the number of simultaneously connecting users.



The term "linguistic resource" is an language-based object, either term-based or corp(us)/(ora)-based (and a TM is one of them), not a person who works with language. (ie, not a resource as a person from the project management or staffing perspectives). So you might want to change the description before putting it on the website and in marketing materials. The generic term would be "language professional" to cover the various professions which work with bilingual and multilingual corpora for translation purposes.


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Jeff Allen  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 00:48
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Multiplelanguages
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WFS is the enterprise level offering May 18, 2009

Kristyna Marrero wrote:
Wordfast also offers these additional products to increase productivity and make the translation process more efficient:
- Wordfast Server


Samuel Murray wrote:

Aah, so Wordfast Server is not part of or included in the Wordfast Translation Studio. Tis a pity the Wordfast web site is not so clear about this. The web site certainly creates the impression that Wordfast Server is included in the studio (and there is no mention on the web site in a prominent location that its pricing must be negotiated with Wordfast LLC on a per-person basis).



It's simply what most other product vendors refer to as the corporate or enterprise level product offer. XXXX Enterprise or XXXX Corporate are the commonly used terms in the software industry in general.

sidenote on the screwdriver analogy higher in this thread: definitely do not want to refer to Screwdriver Enterprise or Screwdriver Corporate, because once it gets pushed to govt circles, then you need Screwdriver Government, and we all know that screwdrivers and hammers skyrocket to astronomically high prices when they are sold to government depts.


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Jeff Allen  Identity Verified
France
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Multiplelanguages
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the component model is not so applicable for WF and other CAT tools May 18, 2009

Sergei Leshchinsky wrote:
... don't they offer a SAP-like service of assembling a set of screwdrivers on-line (with each piece having its price) with the subsequent download of the whole custom package?
Everybody will be happy this way.


The SAP component model is not so simple to apply to the translation tool industry. It is first a programming model, with a business model that allows to price everything individually. Yet, the CAT tools have been on the market for 10-20 years, and we see that the range of user types is very limited. There are a few different modules, with specific purposes, but this is not even close to the differentiation of SAP components based on business user types, application model types, etc. When a software vendor is providing major enterprise level offers with a datawarehousing layer, the user profile authorization software, business process workflows, the HR module, the finance module, the corporate reporting module, etc, then the component model is more appropriate. It serves development, testing, support, services and other areas, but is beneficial for the more complex deployed systems. That is how a custom package, at such a large corporate level, worth dividing into such slices.
But for a product that is limited to professional translators, to localizers, and very related types of users, and with just a few modules, then such a componentized approach can be overkill for the types of users it caters to, and how they are used to purchasing software, and updates.


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