Can I work in Wordfast and deliver uncleaned files, compatible with Trados?
Thread poster: Anna Muntean Stacanova

Anna Muntean Stacanova
United States
Local time: 10:11
Russian to English
+ ...
May 29, 2009

Hello to everyone!

I am a translator and I was using Wordfast up till now. I have gotten enough projects with just Wordfast.

I have tried Trados as Demo version, and although good as it is , I just cannot afford it anytime soon.

Now 2 Russian clients offer me a good workload and ask if I am using Trados, since they prefer Trados. I ask them if I can use Wordfast and they cannot give me a definite answer (maybe becasue the did not work with Wordfast...)

Can I still work in Wordfast and deliver them uncleaned files, compatible with Trados?

Thank you !





[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2009-05-29 01:39 GMT]

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2009-05-29 01:39 GMT]


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Maria Ramon  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:11
Dutch to English
+ ...
YES!! May 29, 2009

Yes you can, because Wordfast is compatible with Trados and almost all other CAT tools.

I work exclusively with Wordfast, WF Classic and WF Pro (for excel files and all other files)

I often receive TMs from Trados and I deliver the unclean and the clean files as well as the TM.

As a matter of fact that is how I got to start using Wordfast in the first place: a client had a TM from Trados and gave me that with the docs to be translated and asked me to get Wordfast, which I did; best thing I have done, getting Wordfast!, thanks to this client.

Congratulations on a potentially good workload.

Maria


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nordiste  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 16:11
English to French
+ ...
Yes with Wordfast classic and MS Word files May 29, 2009

No problem for unclean files in Word format.

For the TM they have to export the TM in tmx format (just one file) and you can open it as a normal TM with Wordast, just make sure to select "all type *.*" in the "file type" when you select your new TM.

You will have to export the TM before delivery (TM editor, tools, special filter, export TM as TMX) .

Your client won't even make the difference

With other files format (Excel, POwerPoint) there is no unclean file , but you can accetp a Tm and deliver the updated TM.

With the new Wordfast Pro there is no unclean file either : Wordfast Pro is a standalone application and works with its one internal bilingual file format. But you can still import or export the TM in tmx format.


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Mikhail Popov
Singapore
Local time: 23:11
Member (2015)
English to Russian
+ ...
Clarification May 29, 2009

Dear nordiste,

Could you tell me, for clarification - the client can ask for uncleaned Trados-like file only is the source file is in Word? All other formats (Excel, Power Point etc.)- you should deliver translated (monolingual) file and updated TM only?

There is no way to produce bilingual Excel document, for example?

Thanks in advance.


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 16:11
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
This depends on the source files and deliverables May 29, 2009

Ina Muntean Stacanova wrote:
Now 2 Russian clients offer me a good workload and ask if I am using Trados, since they prefer Trados. I ask them if I can use Wordfast and they cannot give me a definite answer ... Can I still work in Wordfast and deliver them uncleaned files, compatible with Trados?


In what format will the source files be? MS Word, RTF or TTX? And in what format do they want you to deliver the translation? Uncleaned or TTX? Wordfast can't do TTX (though there are hacks available).

Also, will they be sending you previous TMs? They must send it in TMX format, then, because Wordfast can't read Trados' other two TM formats. And do they want you to send them a TM back? They should be aware that you'll be sending them a TMX file, which they can import into Trados -- and you must make sure your language codes are Trados-compatible.

The important thing is that you tell them you don't have Trados.


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 16:11
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Wordfast and compatibility May 29, 2009

Maria Ramon wrote:
Yes you can, because Wordfast is compatible with Trados and almost all other CAT tools.


I have worked on four major CAT tools (SDLX, Star Transit, SDL Idiom, and SDL Trados), and Wordfast is only half-compatible with *one* of them (and then only WFC, not WFP).



[Edited at 2009-05-29 09:15 GMT]


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Eva Blanar  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 16:11
English to Hungarian
+ ...
No problems with Word May 29, 2009

As a matter of fact, I use WordFast several times instead of Trados and deliver the unclean files, without any problems for the client. (They probably never noticed the difference.) About TM export, I am not sure it works absolutely safely, but if you deliver unclean files, this shall not be a major problem - normally, unclean files are required only by translation agencies.

I only have "plain" WordFast, since about 5-6 years, and when there's an Excel file to be translated, I simply copy the worksheets into a Word document and I work in Word.

To be on the safe side, you might prepare and send them an unclean file, with a few words and sentences, to show them what is it all about: I would be very reluctant myself to accept the use of a CAT tool I don't know.


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Arturo Durán
Spain
Local time: 16:11
English to Spanish
Yes, but my agency cannot open the unclean TXML file produced by WF Pro Oct 6, 2009

Maria Ramon wrote:

(...)

I often receive TMs from Trados and I deliver the unclean and the clean files as well as the TM.

(...)

Maria


I try to do just that
The problem is, WF Pro produces an unclean file in TXML format, and my agency cannot open this at all

What am I overlooking?

Thanks!


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Jorge Payan  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:11
Member (2002)
German to Spanish
+ ...
Yo have to use WF Classic for producing TRADOS compatible bilingual uncleaned files Oct 6, 2009

WF Pro does not produce them. The license for WF Pro also entitles you to WF Classic, which you can use for producing TRADOS-compatible bilingual uncleaned files (.doc)

Saludos


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 16:11
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Terminology, terminology... Oct 7, 2009

Arturo Durán wrote:
The problem is, WF Pro produces an unclean file in TXML format, and my agency cannot open this at all. What am I overlooking?


I suspect most people who use the term "uncleaned file" use it to denote a DOC or RTF file with source and target text that are separated and delimited by the style tw4winMark and in which the source text has the character formatting "hidden".

In some circles, however, the term "uncleaned file" seems to have caught on as a term for any bilingual intermediate format. A client asked me for an uncleaned Excel file -- and all he meant was that the source text should be in column A and the translation should be in column B. If someone asks "what is an uncleaned file" and it is explained as a file that contains both source and target, or a file from which the translation is produced when it is cleaned or when the TM is updated, then the explanation would be correct, but... it is just an explanation, not a definition.

I'm confident that there is no such thing as "an uncleaned file in TMXL format".

I don't think it's possible to create uncleaned files in WFP. You have to use WFC for that, and that essentially means translating the document a second time, and it won't be plain sailing, because WFC and WFP segments text in different ways, and you'd have to re-apply formatting (if formatting is required by the client, which is often the case). Also, the WFP TM contains formatting information that WFC doesn't understand. The TMX file exported from WFP may be useable in a client's other CAT tool although it is not certain that the client's other CAT tool would be able to import the formatting correctly (which means the client still has to apply formatting, if he wants a formatted document).

And you can't export or save a file from WFP into any kind of "uncleaned" format.


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Arturo Durán
Spain
Local time: 16:11
English to Spanish
So, without any doubt, WF Pro CANNOT create Trados-compatible bilingual files Oct 7, 2009

Jorge Payan wrote:

WF Pro does not produce them. The license for WF Pro also entitles you to WF Classic, which you can use for producing TRADOS-compatible bilingual uncleaned files (.doc)

Saludos


Gracias, Jorge
The funny thing is, I clearly remember having read in this very forum about WF Pro's ability to create bilingual Trados-compatible files ... ???

On the other hand, I do not want to be forced to use WF Classic
Amongst other things, I dislike Windows, and use Linux on a day to day basis

Thanks a lot to Samuel as well

Regards!


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Sergei Tumanov  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:11
English to Russian
+ ...
yes, Oct 7, 2009

yes, you can (deliver unclean files compatible with Trados)

Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made.
Otto von Bismarck

Translations too.. :0)
You deliver the result, that´s it.

[Edited at 2009-10-07 21:13 GMT]


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Krzysztof Kajetanowicz  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 16:11
English to Polish
+ ...
uhm Feb 4, 2010

I don't think it's possible to create uncleaned files in WFP. You have to use WFC for that, and that essentially means translating the document a second time, and it won't be plain sailing, because WFC and WFP segments text in different ways, and you'd have to re-apply formatting (if formatting is required by the client, which is often the case). Also, the WFP TM contains formatting information that WFC doesn't understand. The TMX file exported from WFP may be useable in a client's other CAT tool although it is not certain that the client's other CAT tool would be able to import the formatting correctly (which means the client still has to apply formatting, if he wants a formatted document).


1. Could somebody from Wordfast Support confirm or deny what Samuel said (see bold) with respect to the current build 2.2.4 of Wordfast Pro (released late November)?

2. If the client uses Trados and expects Trados-segmented uncleaned .doc files, will either PRO or Classic segment them by the same criteria as Trados does?

[Edited at 2010-02-04 12:38 GMT]


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