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How can Wordfast be linked to most Machine Translation packages?
Thread poster: Grodzki

Grodzki
Poland
Local time: 16:24
German to Polish
+ ...
Apr 14, 2010

Would somebody be able to answer how with Wordfast can be linked to most Machine Translation packages (PowerTranslator™, Systran™, Reverso™ etc), ?

Best regards
Marek Grodzki

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2010-04-15 20:42 GMT]


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Edward Vreeburg  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 16:24
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
+ ...
have you tried Apr 14, 2010

just contacting WordFast support to see if they say they can?

---
Ed


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Kristyna Marrero  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:24
Wordfast and MT Apr 15, 2010

Hi Marek,

It is not clear from your original post what version of Wordfast you are working with (Classic or Pro). Wordfast Pro can only integrate with google translate. It cannot integrate with the other Machine translation programs that you mention below. Wordfast Classic can integrate with Systran™, Power Translator Pro™, PROMT Reverso™, etc. Please refer to page 33 of the Wordfast Classic Full Technical Reference Manual which can be downloaded from our website here -
http://www.wordfast.com/store_download.html

Hope this helps,

Kristyna


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 16:24
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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Version? Apr 16, 2010

Grodzki wrote:
...


Which version of Wordfast?


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Jeff Allen  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 16:24
Member (2011)
Multiplelanguages
+ ...
version of MS Word, of Wordfast Classic or Pro, and each MT brand and edition Nov 26, 2010

Kristyna Marrero wrote:
It is not clear from your original post what version of Wordfast you are working with (Classic or Pro). Wordfast Pro can only integrate with google translate. It cannot integrate with the other Machine translation programs that you mention below. Wordfast Classic can integrate with Systran™, Power Translator Pro™, PROMT Reverso™, etc. Please refer to page 33 of the Wordfast Classic Full Technical Reference Manual which can be downloaded from our website here -
http://www.wordfast.com/store_download.html


This makes sense because Wordfast Classic is based on MS Word and Wordfast Pro on the TMXL format.

Wordfast Classic is therefore piggy-backing off of the MS Word plug-in that the various commercially packaged MT solutions offer, but it is important to be careful to specifically exactly which brands, editions and the version of MS Word they support, and not all have full upward and downward compatibility.

SYSTRAN v4, v5 and v6 Deskop editions (Premium Pro for v4 and v5, Business/Office/Professional for v6) have the Word plug-in (off the top of my head). The other lower editions of the range of SYSTRAN desktop products do not have the MS Word plug-in, so they would likely not be compatible with Wordfast Classic.
It is important to check which specific versions of MS Word are supported by each SYSTRAN version.

Reverso Pro (PROMT-based) v4 and v5 have the MS Word Plug-in.
It is important to check which specific versions of MS Word are supported by each of the 2 versions of Reverso Pro.

Reverso Pro was discontinued and is now replaced by PROMT v6, v7, v8 and now v9

Power Translator Pro: it goes back a long ways and is currently at something like v12 or higher.
There are lots of versions of that product (about once a year) so it is important to check the MS Word compatibility.

Reverso Translator v10 (and now v11 I believe) is based on a different technology, and I am not sure off the top of my head if it supports MS Word (but that can be found on their website, as well as the versions of MS Word).

So, it is always important to check if the version of MS Word that you currently use, and plan to upgrade to, is/are supported by both a specific version of Wordfast Classic and by a specific brand and edition of any of the MT technologies.

As for Wordfast Pro, this seems to be just linking to Google Translate via the GT API that is made available

Jeff



[Edited at 2010-11-26 14:02 GMT]


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How can Wordfast be linked to most Machine Translation packages? Nov 26, 2010

Hi Jeff and others

it means that if the current trend to abandon MS Word based CATs will go on, chances to have MT (smoothly) integrated in our regular CAT based work-flow, are at death's door

not a great news to me

BTW, I don't know how many peers noticed it, but even the outdated SDLX 2007 Standard can implement a MT, dunno what
Tools > Options > Machine Translation
here you can load a Machine Translation Engine as a .dll file

Claudio

[Modificato alle 2010-11-26 14:49 GMT]


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Milan Condak  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:24
English to Czech
Easy, but with some limitations Nov 26, 2010

Grodzki wrote:
how with Wordfast can be linked to most Machine Translation packages (?
Marek Grodzki


Here is my short November presentation in Czech: Machine translation integrated into CAT

http://www.condak.net/akce/jeronym10/cs/00.html

Page 01: you need MT with MS Word plug-in (or MT engine as MS Word plug-in)

http://www.condak.net/akce/jeronym10/cs/01.html

see Power Translator *.wll in 2004, or *.dot and lastly *.dll.

there are three possibilities:
a) translation of a whole document into new windows (PARS for PL-EN, EN-PL in 2004)
b) translation by paragraph
c) translation of sentence = we need this method for translation in bilingual " Trados.doc" (or other type of the file)

I put there link to http://www.lec.com/default.asp , with offer of "Power Translator 14" desktop.
It provide translation for Arabic, Chinese, Dutch, English, French, German, Hebrew, Indonesian, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Pashto, Persian, Polish, Portuguese, Russian, Spanish, Tagalog, Turkish, and Ukrainian.
There is no Czech language, I did not testet it.

Page 02:

http://www.condak.net/akce/jeronym10/cs/02.html

Czech MT, PC Translator is integrated into MS Word through Word add-in *.DLL and so into Wordfast, too, since October 2006.

http://www.condak.net/machine_t/cs/g_en_vi/cs/12.html

PC Translator is present in MS Word as "Translator". PC Translator create new windows with one translation or with more variants in more lines.

Page 05:

I found two EU projects. One for dictionary and rules based MT and second for statistical MT.

http://www.condak.net/akce/jeronym10/cs/05.html

On http://www.itranslate4.eu/ is http://www.pwn.pl/ ( I did not tested it).

Here are logos of MT developers http://www.itranslate4.eu/members.html


Notes to Wordfast Classic:
a) you can see, WFC is developed

http://www.wordfast.net/beta/

b) WFC will continue as the product on the market in 2011, it will be sold separately

http://www.wordfast.net/pricing.html

You can renewing a license of WF Studio or buy only WFC licence.

Milan


[Edited at 2010-11-27 08:32 GMT]


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How can Wordfast be linked to most Machine Translation packages? Nov 26, 2010

Hi Milan

many link of yours are in Czech but it's all double Dutch to me!


your lec link (http://www.lec.com/default.asp) has a final comma that is wrong
but there are many releases of Power Translator:
Premium
Personal
Pro
Euro
World
World Premium

are them all fine?

furthermore, do you know a MT tool ( Power Translator may be) that works smoothly into a CAT as GT works in WF Classic for example?

i.e. you open a TU, the CAT finds nothing in the memory and automatically a translation drops in the target from the MT ...

BTW, this week I installed andLinux to try MMM but I found that it's not "mere enough" to me


Claudio

[Modificato alle 2010-11-26 21:21 GMT]


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How can Wordfast be linked to most Machine Translation packages? Nov 26, 2010

Hi Milan again

I just checked the Lec Web site finding another range of products, the Translate line, that seems more professional to me, even if many useless adds remain, as text-to-speech for example
http://www.lec.com/listProductFamily.asp?product_family=Translate-Pro

do you know if all these MT tools work smoothly with WF Classic?

Claudio

[Modificato alle 2010-11-26 22:05 GMT]


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Jeff Allen  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 16:24
Member (2011)
Multiplelanguages
+ ...
answers to several questions on MT and TM - CAT tool compatibility Nov 27, 2010

Claudio Porcellana wrote:

I just checked the Lec Web site finding another range of products, the Translate line, that seems more professional to me, even if many useless adds remain, as text-to-speech for example
do you know if all these MT tools work smoothly with WF Classic?


Hi Claudio,

Magellan Translate by LEC is a mid-range MT product.
They may have extended the range in the last year or two to have a pro version. They are also the main licenced distributors of Power Translator.
Expected compatibility with WFC wouldn't be expected to be any more than with other MT packages already cited.

Claudio Porcellana wrote:

your lec link (http://www.lec.com/default.asp) has a final comma that is wrong
but there are many releases of Power Translator:
Premium / Personal / Pro / Euro / World / World Premium
are them all fine?

furthermore, do you know a MT tool ( Power Translator may be) that works smoothly into a CAT as GT works in WF Classic for example?



Power Translator was the one that was mentioned in my reply post several posts up in reply to Kristyna from Wordfast. She said that WFC does support Power Translator. Power Translator is basically the rebranded name of the Globalink Power Translator MT package from the 90s, now at version 14ish as I can see.
Milan replied above with quite a bit of detail about the LEC Power Translator supportability in WFC.

The range presented Power Translator are not releases, but a mix between Editions and licensing packs.
SYSTRAN refers to Editions as Home/Office/Business/Pro , PROMT refers to them as Standard/Professional/Expert, Reverso-PROMT called them Express/Perso/Pro/Expert, etc)
As for Licensing, many of them use terms like Euro/World/Global/Asia/etc to define the licensed packs of language pairs by regions of languages needed when you want more than just a single language pair.

Claudio Porcellana wrote:

it means that if the current trend to abandon MS Word based CATs will go on, chances to have MT (smoothly) integrated in our regular CAT based work-flow, are at death's door

not a great news to me

BTW, I don't know how many peers noticed it, but even the outdated SDLX 2007 Standard can implement a MT, dunno what
Tools > Options > Machine Translation
here you can load a Machine Translation Engine as a .dll file



The movement away from MS Word (or rather the support of RTF as the plug-in pivot) is rather a movement forward to greater flexibility because many Translation Memory tools (but not all) have always been behind in the times in this area until the last few years. 15 years ago when we were dealing with integrated SGML tags, none of the standard TM tools on the market on the time could handle it (which the MT solution we were using could handle), so we developed our own in-house. XML based supportability today is just the extensible and flexible daughter lifeform of SGML, and is the direction that any smart in the overall software industry has been going the past few years to provided interoperability of data exchanges, in whatever domain you work in. I spent 5 years in telecom software, and one of the key areas of improvement was being able to support XML-based data transfer.

Over the years, Atril Deja Vu and Alchemy Catalyst/Publisher have been two that seem to have had the widest range of file format supportability of all the TM tools. Some TM tools have sacrificed in the usability topic to provide more flexibility products in terms of extensibility to integrating with other tools and systems.

The reality of the situation is that even SYSTRAN v6 desktop moved away from pure MS Word support to using XLIFF as the pivot for internal conversion. This is stated in their user manual. MT tool vendors want to get away from MS Word because it becomes more complicated to support over time and is not a great intermediate exchange of data for enterprise level multilingual data management, yet at the same time, it is the main text editor used for the business and home user market, so it still needs to be supported for mass-market software distribution purposes.

As for SDLX 2007 Standard, the .dll file is simply a link to their "embedded MT" system which was their own proprietary MT solution called the Transparent MT solution that SDL acquired in 2000 from Transparent (back when there were many buyouts of MT companies and the demise of L&H and it selling off all its MT subsidaries). ETS for the server version and Autotrans (rebranded name by SDL) for the desktop which I referred to in my presentation at LocalizationWorld in 2004.

I've mentioned recently in posts and conference talks that SDL has seemed to have removed all mention of the Transparent-MT system from their marketing after their official acquisition of the Language Weaver SMT system a few months ago. Maybe it could continue as an embedded DLL, but given the shifts in the industry, and that their MT guru of that system for 10 years went to a different company recently (that I picked up just from affiliation change in his LinkedIn profile), I seriously doubt that the Transparent system will be supported for the long-term. Only time will tell.

Milan Condak wrote:

Page 02:

Czech MT, PC Translator is integrated into MS Word through Word add-in *.DLL and so into Wordfast, too, since October 2006.

PC Translator is present in MS Word as "Translator". PC Translator create new windows with one translation or with more variants in more lines.



The direct MT plug-in in MS Word at least back in 2006 was from a company (I can't remember their name off hand) that was previously using an older licensed version of SYSTRAN repackaged under their name (like the Reverso-PROMT, and the Globalink-LEC rebrandings) and then then seem to have changed MT engine licensing strategies around 2008 based on some presentation they have at a conference. All that info would require some digging as it seemed to be short-lived. Yet Microsoft could change that embedded MT tool as do some MT vendors who offer multiple language pairs which varying underlying licensed engines (the case of Reverso Translator v10 and higher).

Milan Condak wrote:

Page 05:

I found two EU projects. One for dictionary and rules based MT and second for statistical MT.

Here are logos of MT developers
itranslate4 web page



I checked out the itranslate4 web page. This is simply a European Commission funded HLT/IST project under the most recent Framework program (likely FP7 now). I obtained and managed several such EC-funded project under the funding Frameworks 4 and 5. It is important to note here that it is an academic research institute doing all the project coordination. It is often the case that the only way to get commercial software companies to participate in such projects is just to include them as partners. A very important item to note in their Workpackages and deliverables is they won't deliver a common API for the first 12 months of a 24-month supported project. This really bothers me that it would take 12 months to define and produce a common API for several different MT engines. This shows the state of affairs and why it is currently extremely complicated for the compatibility between TM tools and MT tools today.

Milan Condak wrote:

Notes to Wordfast Classic:
a) you can see, WFC is developed


b) WFC will continue as the product on the market in 2011, it will be sold separately

You can renewing a license of WF Studio or buy only WFC licence.



This distinction between classic and integrated with other solution via interoperable forms is the tendency of many types of software tool vendors (not just language related). The separation of a software tool into a classic vs new edition or model is an indicator of their supportability roadmap plans.


I hope that these answers help clarify a lot of the issues on software supportability. That's why many tool vendors want to restrict their support of 3rd party tools to a few, as the wider the range of tools that they officially announce as supported makes them accountable as to have fully tested it, and maintaining the supportability of major/minor/SPs/patches of the 3rd party tools. This maintenance is a significant investment for software dev and test teams.

Jeff


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Milan Condak  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:24
English to Czech
Different versions have different limitations Nov 27, 2010

Claudio Porcellana wrote:

Hi Milan again

do you know if all these MT tools work smoothly with WF Classic?

Claudio


Claudio, I can answer only questions after testing or using these MTs. I use only MTs with supported Czech language, so I do not know.

Here we are in Wordfast support forum.
I think that we can obtain the right answer from Hermann Bruns, developer of MetaTexis. He made integration of some desktop MTs into MetaTexis. Now is available version 3, MetaTexis for Word, for different versions of MS Word.

Milan


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Michael Joseph Wdowiak Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:24
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
memoQ now has Google MT plugin Dec 1, 2010

http://kilgray.com/news/free-google-mt-plugin

While you are translating, if there are not enough (good) hits from your TM, the plugin automatically fills in your target segment from Google Translate.





Michael


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memoQ now has Google MT plugin Dec 1, 2010

@Michael

even Wordfast Pro and SDL Studio 2009 have this plug-in, but this cannot be our final solution, as GT belongs to Google, there is no certainty that it will be for free for ever, and so it will never be a reliable tool of ours

so I hope that some vendor will be able to sell a MT tool able to work smoothly integrated into a standalone CAT tool similarly to "MemoQ/Wordfast Pro/SDL Studio + GT", even avoiding the MS Word format issue quoted by Jeff

but currently, there is no such MT tool
correct me if I'm wrong ...


Claudio


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Jeff Allen  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 16:24
Member (2011)
Multiplelanguages
+ ...
correction on format type acronym Dec 1, 2010

Jeff Allen wrote:

This makes sense because Wordfast Classic is based on MS Word and Wordfast Pro on the TMXL format.


I meant to write TXML (Tranlsation XML) format.

Jeff


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