Advice, please about segmentation and placeable numbers
Thread poster: Lesley Clarke

Lesley Clarke  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 14:18
Spanish to English
Jun 8, 2011

My current wordfast classic program, 5.92m that I use on Windows XP, Office 2003, does not segment properly (I have supposedly programmed my preferences for segmentation but it totally ignores them) and 90% of the time does not treat numbers as placeables with there is otherwise 100% concordance.

Should I disinstall and reinstall the program, use another version of wordfast or change to another CAT tool? These two problems are taking up too much of my time.

Please, pl
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My current wordfast classic program, 5.92m that I use on Windows XP, Office 2003, does not segment properly (I have supposedly programmed my preferences for segmentation but it totally ignores them) and 90% of the time does not treat numbers as placeables with there is otherwise 100% concordance.

Should I disinstall and reinstall the program, use another version of wordfast or change to another CAT tool? These two problems are taking up too much of my time.

Please, please advise, all suggestions will be gratefully accepted.
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Lori Cirefice  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 21:18
French to English
revert Jun 8, 2011

Revert to a previous version that worked for you - I am still using 5.52 here, mostly because it just works right for me! I only upgrade if I have serious problems. I know there are some cool features on newer vesions, but they just aren't appealing enough for me to switch from this version - I know all the quirks and don't have to fiddle with settings anymore...

 

Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:18
Finnish to French
please rephrase Jun 8, 2011

Lesley Clarke wrote:
90% of the time does not treat numbers as placeables with there is otherwise 100% concordance.

I can't make much sense of the above statement. Please rephrase it in a more understandable manner. Give concrete examples of what you mean.

Numbers should always be considered placeables by Wordfast Classic. Matches have nothing to do with numbers being or not being considered as placeables.

Segments that are otherwise identical, but vary only based on the numbers they contain can be treated in various manner by Wordfast, depending on settings in Translation memory > TM rules. Select the profile (regular, cautious, paranoid) that corresponds to your personal preferences.


 

Lesley Clarke  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 14:18
Spanish to English
TOPIC STARTER
Sorry Dominique Jun 8, 2011

90% of the time does not treat numbers as placeables when there is otherwise 100% concordance.

I mean if the number(s) is/are the only difference between a segment in my translation memory and the segment I am translating, the program does not automatically replace the old number with the new one, as had previously been my experience.

And thanks Lori, for your input, I may well have no choice but to use an earlier version.


 

Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:18
Finnish to French
Yes, newer versions are less aggressive when substituting numbers Jun 11, 2011

Lesley Clarke wrote:
I mean if the number(s) is/are the only difference between a segment in my translation memory and the segment I am translating, the program does not automatically replace the old number with the new one, as had previously been my experience.

This is true: Wf has become more conservative / less aggressive with number substitution. Numbers really have to be the only difference for the substitution to take place. If you have different separators in source and target for thousands and/or decimals, this is enough to prevent substitution.


 

Lesley Clarke  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 14:18
Spanish to English
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Dominique Jun 11, 2011

So what you are saying is that I should at least change to an older version of wordfast? Or maybe you or someone else could recommend a better CAT tool, that would do what it says on the label?

 

Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:18
Finnish to French
It's up to you Jun 11, 2011

Lesley Clarke wrote:
So what you are saying is that I should at least change to an older version of wordfast? Or maybe you or someone else could recommend a better CAT tool, that would do what it says on the label?

I'm not saying anything: it's up to you to decide. If this feature is an absolute must for you and you want to use Wordfast Classic, then yes, you'll have to revert to an older version.

If you want to use another tool and automatic number substitution is the only relevant (or top-most) feature for you, then it should be pretty easy to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Frankly speaking, I personally think this is a minor feature and I kind of understand the precautionary principle adopted by the developer: only perform the substitution when there's no risk whatsoever it can go wrong; otherwise leave numbers as they are and let the user do the substitution.

Btw, I'm not aware of any label explicitly mentioning the feature you're referring to. Features have been added and removed along the years, no big deal.


 

Lesley Clarke  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 14:18
Spanish to English
TOPIC STARTER
Dominique... Jun 11, 2011

Thank you for taking the time with me, Dominique. It is a shame that no-one from wordfast has come onto this forum to address these issues, because, though you were unaware of it, these are both features promised by wordfast.

The wordfast manual does say that numbers are placeables and it is an important feature for me for one client's work in particular. As for the other problem about segmentation, that is also a serious problem for me. Wordfast says that if you ask it to segment o
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Thank you for taking the time with me, Dominique. It is a shame that no-one from wordfast has come onto this forum to address these issues, because, though you were unaware of it, these are both features promised by wordfast.

The wordfast manual does say that numbers are placeables and it is an important feature for me for one client's work in particular. As for the other problem about segmentation, that is also a serious problem for me. Wordfast says that if you ask it to segment on a full-stop followed by a capital letter it will, however it doesn't, it seems to segment at any old full-stop and then one has to spend ages decreasing the size of the segment to get it to the first full-stop. An insane time-waster. I had hoped someone would have a simple solution to offer, but anyway, again, thanks for taking the time to try to help.
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Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:18
Finnish to French
Please provide examples of misworking segmentation Jun 12, 2011

Lesley Clarke wrote:
It is a shame that no-one from wordfast has come onto this forum to address these issues,

As it happens, I'm sort of "from Wordfast", since I work for their technical support. Please note, however, that this forum is intended for peer-to-peer help. If you need/want technical assistance from Wordfast, the official channel is the Wordfast hotline.

Lesley Clarke wrote:
because, though you were unaware of it, these are both features promised by wordfast.

As far as I'm aware, no promise has been made for number substitution or for perfect segmentation in every single case.

Lesley Clarke wrote:
The wordfast manual does say that numbers are placeables and it is an important feature for me for one client's work in particular.

Yes, number are placeables: it means they can be selected (the red frame you get with Ctrl+Alt+Right/Left) and copied ie. "placed" into the target segment (Ctrl+Alt+Down). This feature does work AFAIK.
An attempt is being made to substitute numbers when a similar segment exists in the TM and differs mostly on the basis of numbers, but it's on a best effort basis. No promise has been made a substitution will always be attempted, and that if it is attempted, it will always work. In fact, there were plenty of cases in which attempted substitution failed/backfired, which is why it was decided to make it more conservative / less aggressive (as I already told you).

Lesley Clarke wrote:
As for the other problem about segmentation, that is also a serious problem for me. Wordfast says that if you ask it to segment on a full-stop followed by a capital letter it will, however it doesn't, it seems to segment at any old full-stop and then one has to spend ages decreasing the size of the segment to get it to the first full-stop. An insane time-waster.

Can you provide an example of a pair of segment where the first segment ends with a full-stop, the second segment starts with a capital letter and both segments are bundled together? This may happen in some specific cases. No promise has been made segmentation will always work the way you want. This is why there are such functions as ShrinkSegment, ExpandSegment and ForceSegment: they are meant to adjust segmentation the way you want it to work.


[Edited at 2011-06-12 05:10 GMT]

[Edited at 2011-06-12 05:11 GMT]


 

Lesley Clarke  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 14:18
Spanish to English
TOPIC STARTER
Again, thanks for your time, Dominique Jun 13, 2011

Silly me, I was unaware of the hotline, I'm sure I looked for such a thing years and never found it, only the Yahoo groups existed at the time.

I don't see the point in giving an example of the segmentation problem, suffice it to say it is as I say. I just finished a really long document where I had to decrease the segment size nearly everytime. But it is totally arbitrary.

So anyway, can I conclude from what you say about the number substitution changes that have been
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Silly me, I was unaware of the hotline, I'm sure I looked for such a thing years and never found it, only the Yahoo groups existed at the time.

I don't see the point in giving an example of the segmentation problem, suffice it to say it is as I say. I just finished a really long document where I had to decrease the segment size nearly everytime. But it is totally arbitrary.

So anyway, can I conclude from what you say about the number substitution changes that have been made, I would be better served by an earlier version of wordfast?

Thanks again, I'm sorry that I may have irritated you.
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