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Wordfast Classic 6 segmentation & Translate and Clean-up functions inquiry
Thread poster: ahmadwadan.com

ahmadwadan.com  Identity Verified
Kuwait
Local time: 15:33
English to Arabic
+ ...
Mar 25, 2012

Hello,

I am a new user of Wordfast Classic (WC). However, I have many years of experience using Trados (From 2007 till Studio 2011) so I may raise questions that could be asked by a newbie:

Question 1:

How to force WFC to adopt the following line as one segment without splitting it into 2 segments?

XXX Company K.S.C. (Closed) and its subsidiaries

WFC splits the above line into:

TU1: XXX Company K.S.C.
TU2: (Closed) and its subsidiaries

The above behavior does not happen with Trados Workbench which uses the above as one segment. Also, I understand that should not delete (.) from segmentation rule (End-of-segment punctuation).

I raised the above example since I have tens of repetitions of it along many financial statements (headers) that I translate and doing segmentation manually shall consume a lot of time so I am seeking an automated solution.

Question 2:

Upon carrying out Translate or Clean-up through WFC menu (Tools) I found that both functions took a lot of time compared to Trados Workbench.

I made a comparison test for a Word file of 14000 words which contains no graphics (using the same TM content with all 100% match) trying to translate that file then cleaning it up and made the same test 4 times to be sure of results’ accuracy and reached the following stats:

WFC 6.1 :
- Translate: from 88 to 100 seconds
- Clean-up: around 70 seconds

Trados Suite 2007 (Workbench 8.0):
- Translate: from 21 to 23 seconds
- Clean-up: from 21 to 23 seconds


My question: ِAm I doing (translate & clean-up) in a less smart way or the above stats are normal?

System used for comparison: Desktop PC - Win XP - Word 2003 – WFC 6.01 – Workbench 8.0

Thank you for support.


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Marcelina Haftka  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 14:33
Member (2006)
English to Polish
+ ...
Forcing a segment Mar 25, 2012

ahmadwadan.com wrote:

How to force WFC to adopt the following line as one segment without splitting it into 2 segments?

XXX Company K.S.C. (Closed) and its subsidiaries


Hello,

If you are a beginner and do not want to start with some complicated procedures or options, simply highlight the entire sentence with your cursor and then press Alt+Shift+arrow down. This is how you can force segments in Wf Classic.

By the way, all Wordfasts have the option "Shrink/Expand Segment" which help you to overpass the problem of punctuation.

Good luck!
Marcelina

[Edited at 2012-03-25 12:23 GMT]


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ahmadwadan.com  Identity Verified
Kuwait
Local time: 15:33
English to Arabic
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Big volume of matches Mar 25, 2012

Hello Marcelina,

Thank you for your kind response. However, it does not address my request for an automated solution. For sure I know about "Shrink/Expand Segment". But this way I will have to do that tens of times within the same file and hundreds of times within one week.

I translate around 5 financial statements per day (matches are a lot) each of around 20 to 50 pages and each page has this case.

This means around 100 to 250 case per day (would you do that manually?).

All these financial statements have 100% match regarding company names.

I believe you understand the case better now.

Kind regards


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Marcelina Haftka  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 14:33
Member (2006)
English to Polish
+ ...
Punctuation Mar 25, 2012

The problem is that the full stop forces Wf to cut the segment.
However, if you say it's the company name and you have highly repetitive phrases...
If I were you, I would simply add the name to the Glossary and let your Wordfast do the rest - segmentation, translation etc.
(You simply press Ctrl+Alt+T - it will throw your phrase into a glossary chosen.)


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JL01  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:33
English to French
+ ...
See the abbreviation list Mar 25, 2012

You may try adding the abbreviations to the Abbreviations list in Setup | Segments. However, in my experience, that may or may not work.

WRT the speeds you report, I don't find them abnormal, especially in view of the Word file size. XP processing speed alse depends on installed memory, BTW.

You might want to subscribe to the Wordfast mailing list (it is a Yahoo Group), where your segmentation question may get more answers, and may even have been covered in the past.


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Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 15:33
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Why don't you use Trados? Mar 25, 2012

If Trados does the job better I would use Trados. WFC is fine if you want to work in Word and view the formatting at the same time. It is not surprising that a stand-alone application works faster than a macro in Word. But the macro is easier to program.

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ahmadwadan.com  Identity Verified
Kuwait
Local time: 15:33
English to Arabic
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
3 reasons Mar 25, 2012

Heinrich Pesch wrote:
Why don't you use Trados?

If Trados does the job better I would use Trados. WFC is fine if you want to work in Word and view the formatting at the same time.


Hi Heinrich,

Reason # 1: I want to work in Word.

Reason # 2: Wordfast has very reasonable EULA where I can have free upgrade for 3 years as of purchase date and 50% discount on subsequent periods’ upgrades.

Upon comparing that to Trados Studio 2011 Professional (which I already have), and the need for other 2 professional licenses (around Euro 6,000) and subsequent paid upgrades for a small translation unit you simply discover that Trados option is a blood-sucking option.

Reason # 3: Trados gives you options in a version and steals such options from an upgrade! I hate such business policy which does not care of user interests and only cares for making money.

For example, merging 2 translation units in Studio 2011 is dim/inactive most of times while as that option is there in SDL Trados Suite 2007 and active all times.

Example 2, I can not edit source in Studio 2011 while as I am able to in version 2007. Overall, Trados surprises me adversely.

Example 3, Trados made user comes to a deadlock when trying to keep using Studio 2011 and 2007 TM exchangeably, you can only upgrade 2007 TM to 2011 but there is no way back.

So, I found that it is time to abandon such irritating behavior adopted by Trados.

Kind regards

[Edited at 2012-03-25 13:51 GMT]


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ahmadwadan.com  Identity Verified
Kuwait
Local time: 15:33
English to Arabic
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
It did not work Mar 25, 2012

JL01 wrote:

You may try adding the abbreviations to the Abbreviations list in Setup | Segments. However, in my experience, that may or may not work.


Unfortunatley it did not work.


BTW.

You might want to subscribe to the Wordfast mailing list (it is a Yahoo Group), where your segmentation question may get more answers, and may even have been covered in the past.


Thank you JL01


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ahmadwadan.com  Identity Verified
Kuwait
Local time: 15:33
English to Arabic
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
How glossary shall help in translating it automatically? Mar 25, 2012

Marcelina Haftka wrote:

The problem is that the full stop forces Wf to cut the segment.
However, if you say it's the company name and you have highly repetitive phrases...
If I were you, I would simply add the name to the Glossary and let your Wordfast do the rest - segmentation, translation etc.
(You simply press Ctrl+Alt+T - it will throw your phrase into a glossary chosen.)


I did as you advised. Created glossary and added company name within it and I confirm that I see the term there in the glossary which is active.

Now, I find that WFC splits company name into 3 segments as follows:

XXX Company K.S.C. (Closed) and its subsidiaries

XXX Company K.S.
C.
(Closed) and its subsidiaries

I have no idea why it turned to split in into 3 segments after it was only 2. Now I have to expand it twice. I wish if you can explain how adding the company name to glossary shall help in translating it automatically.

Company name is repeated in file header and is not translated at all. I have to open file and do that manually in "Print Layout View".

Thank you


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Marcelina Haftka  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 14:33
Member (2006)
English to Polish
+ ...
Glossary entries Mar 25, 2012

Either you press twice Ctrl+Alt+T to have the name/phrase not translated, simply copied, when met within the text; or you press the shortcut once when marking the original namer/phrase and then for the second time marking your translation (if you decided to translate a part of the term).

When you arrive at a part of the text, Wf will recognise it and highlight it in blue (default colour). Depending on your version of Wf, either you write the first letter or you choose the placeable and copy it.

In my case it worked in previous versions and it works swell in my MS Word 2010 and Wf Classic v. 6.02r. I tend not to work in the Print View.


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JL01  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:33
English to French
+ ...
Content of glossary has no effect in segmentation Mar 25, 2012

I don't understand why there is this discussion about adding terms to the glossary, since this is irrelevant to the segmentation issue.

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Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:33
Finnish to French
Use abbreviations Mar 25, 2012

ahmadwadan.com wrote:
How to force WFC to adopt the following line as one segment without splitting it into 2 segments?

XXX Company K.S.C. (Closed) and its subsidiaries

You would want to add K.S.C. as an abbreviation (Setup > Segments). However, this is not sufficient in this very particular case (three dots inside a single abbreviation), so you would also want to add K.S. as an abbreviation. Once you've done that, you will get the segmentation you want. I admit this is not very elegant, but I assume K.S.C. occurs very often in the texts you translate, so it would make sense to use this method, even if it's a bit cumbersome

ahmadwadan.com wrote:
Upon carrying out Translate or Clean-up through WFC menu (Tools) I found that both functions took a lot of time compared to Trados Workbench.

Trados Workbench is a separate application that can perform all the heavy-duty stuff in .exe and .dll's, leaving only user-interaction in the .dot/.dotm. Wordfast Classic does everything within a single .dot. VBA (Visual Basic for Application) is much slower than whatever programming language was used to create the .exe and .dll's of Trados Workbench, so it's not surprising tasks like Translate and Clean-up take longer in Wordfast Classic. You should rather compare the performance with Wordfast Pro.


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ahmadwadan.com  Identity Verified
Kuwait
Local time: 15:33
English to Arabic
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Dominique has a point Mar 25, 2012

JL01 wrote:

I don't understand why there is this discussion about adding terms to the glossary, since this is irrelevant to the segmentation issue.


Dominique has a point in this.

[Edited at 2012-03-25 17:30 GMT]


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Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:33
Finnish to French
Ctrl+Alt+T used both for glossaries and abbreviations Mar 25, 2012

JL01 wrote:
I don't understand why there is this discussion about adding terms to the glossary, since this is irrelevant to the segmentation issue.

Actually, there is a link between abbreviations and glossaries, sort of: you can use Ctrl+Alt+T (the keyboard shortcut normally used to add term pairs to glossaries) in order to send abbreviations to the abbreviation list.

[Edited at 2012-03-25 17:43 GMT]


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Marcelina Haftka  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 14:33
Member (2006)
English to Polish
+ ...
Reply Mar 25, 2012

JL01 wrote:

I don't understand why there is this discussion about adding terms to the glossary, since this is irrelevant to the segmentation issue.


The solution I gave HAD actually changed the segmentation behaviour of my Wordfast, as simple as that. I thought it would be a Wf-beginner-friendly advice. That's all.


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