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TXML tags
Thread poster: Edward Potter

Edward Potter  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 14:53
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
May 3, 2012

I´m new to WordFast Pro and TXML files.

Is there any way to work without the tags that look like {UT1}, {UT2}, and the like?

Please say yes.


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Soonthon LUPKITARO(Ph.D.)  Identity Verified
Thailand
Local time: 19:53
Member (2004)
English to Thai
+ ...
XML codes May 3, 2012

In fact, {ut1} .... are meaningful [but rather complicate] XML codes e.g. , , . I open TXML file with Notepad and edit it directly without using WordFast Pro.
However, this method is prone to mistake; TXML may fail to convert back to a target file.

Soonthon Lupkitaro


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Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:53
Finnish to French
Wait for Wordfast Pro 4.0 or look at WYSIWYG competitors May 3, 2012

Edward Potter wrote:
I´m new to WordFast Pro and TXML files.
Is there any way to work without the tags that look like {UT1}, {UT2}, and the like?
Please say yes.

I'm afraid you can't escape them, for the time being. You either have to wait until the next major version (4.0) of Wordfast Pro, which will have a WYSIWYG editor, or have a look at competing products that already have one, eg. SDL Trados Studio or memoQ. But even these aren't fully exempt of tags.


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 14:53
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
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Can't avoid the tags, but can reduce them May 3, 2012

Edward Potter wrote:
I'm new to WordFast Pro and TXML files. Is there any way to work without the tags that look like {UT1}, {UT2}, and the like?


No, the tags are present in all similar programs that extract translatable text and retain non-translatable content as placeables/tags. You can reduce the number of tags by simplifying the source file, e.g. if you run CodeZapper on MS Word files before loading the files into WFP.

Furthermore the tags in WFP do not show their underlying meaning, which certain other similar programs do. Like Soonthon I too translate TXML files in Notepad (actually in WFP, but the principle is the same) so that I can see what the tag is for. I rarely encounter recompilation errors.


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Edward Potter  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 14:53
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Advantages? May 3, 2012

So what are the advantages of using WF Pro with these tags?

WF Classic didn't ask me to work around these tags.

So far, from my limited experience, WF Pro is not a good product. It takes me extra time to work around the tags, or I have to use different software or prepare my files before using them.

So what are the advantages?


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Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:53
Finnish to French
Huge differences in tag handling between CAT tools May 3, 2012

Samuel Murray wrote:
No, the tags are present in all similar programs that extract translatable text and retain non-translatable content as placeables/tags.

I conducted some tests last September with four "mainstream" CAT tools, using the same sample documents. Here are the results:

Studio 2009:


memoQ translator pro 5:


Wordfast Pro 2.4.3.1:


Déjà Vu X:


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Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:53
Finnish to French
File formats, personal preferences May 3, 2012

Edward Potter wrote:
So what are the advantages of using WF Pro with these tags?

One advantage of using Wordfast Pro is that it supports a wide range of formats.

Edward Potter wrote:
WF Classic didn't ask me to work around these tags.

But Wordfast Classic only supports Word documents

Edward Potter wrote:
So far, from my limited experience, WF Pro is not a good product. It takes me extra time to work around the tags, or I have to use different software or prepare my files before using them.

If you don't like translating in Wordfast Pro, but need to deal with file formats not supported by Classic, you may want to consider my workaround:

http://wordfast.fi/blog/cat-tools/2012/03/04/translate-any-format-in-wordfast-classic-with-wordfast-pro-3/

Edward Potter wrote:
So what are the advantages?

Different people have different needs and preferences. Some people actually prefer working in Pro, just like some Trados users preferred working in TagEditor rather than in Word (they must have been masochists, because TagEditor is the most user-unfriendly environment I've ever seen)


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 14:53
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Trados 2009 and MemoQ are WYWISIG tools May 3, 2012

Dominique Pivard wrote:
Samuel Murray wrote:
No, the tags are present in all similar programs that extract translatable text and retain non-translatable content as placeables/tags.

I conducted some tests last September with four "mainstream" CAT tools, using the same sample documents.


Well, "similar programs" can mean anything but I meant programs that use tags to indicate formatting, i.e. that would be non-WYSIWIG. From your screenshots it is clear that both Trados 2009 and MemoQ are WYSIWIG tools. Are those two programs also tagless with font *face* changes?


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Yasmin Moslem  Identity Verified
Egypt
Local time: 14:53
English to Arabic
Wordfast Classic May 3, 2012

Edward Potter wrote:

So what are the advantages of using WF Pro with these tags?

WF Classic didn't ask me to work around these tags.


Dear Edward,

I was about to tell you so. If you have the choice, select Wordfast Classic. I am not sure why you should struggle with something you do not like.

Even if you have formats other than MS Word documents, Dominique can tell you how to translate them using Wordfast Classic; he already has videos on that.

Kind regards,
Yasmin


[Edited at 2012-05-03 20:06 GMT]


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Yasmin Moslem  Identity Verified
Egypt
Local time: 14:53
English to Arabic
underlying meaning of tags May 3, 2012

Samuel Murray wrote:

Furthermore the tags in WFP do not show their underlying meaning, which certain other similar programs do. Like Soonthon I too translate TXML files in Notepad (actually in WFP, but the principle is the same) so that I can see what the tag is for. I rarely encounter recompilation errors.


Dear Samuel,

Cannot you see the content of a tag if you move the cursor on it (in a yellow tool-tip) or when you press Ctrl+Alt+Right (at the bottom of Wordfast Pro interface)? I believe this is the case unless you mean something else.

Kind regards,
Yasmin


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Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:53
Finnish to French
Font face changes? May 3, 2012

Samuel Murray wrote:
From your screenshots it is clear that both Trados 2009 and MemoQ are WYSIWIG tools.

Actually memoQ is only partially WYSIWYG: for bold, italic and underline (which are of course the most important attributes). It will use tags to indicate that a word has a different colour inside a segment, or when subscript/superscript are being used etc. Studio 2009/2011 is the most WYSIWYG of the tools I've looked at.

Samuel Murray wrote:
Are those two programs also tagless with font *face* changes?

Pardon my ignorance, but you'll have to tell me what a font face change is!


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Edward Potter  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 14:53
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
TXML files May 3, 2012

I'm not switching from WF Classic to WF Pro because I want to. I'm doing it because I have to. A customer of mine is insisting I work with TXML files in Pro.

Classic is fine for Word, PPT, and Excel formats, about 100% of the work I do (outside of PDF files). I imagine most translators would say the same.

So I don't get it why anyone would want to shatter the world of a happy WF Classic user with these TXML files.


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Yasmin Moslem  Identity Verified
Egypt
Local time: 14:53
English to Arabic
I see! May 3, 2012

Edward Potter wrote:

I'm not switching from WF Classic to WF Pro because I want to. I'm doing it because I have to. A customer of mine is insisting I work with TXML files in Pro.


I thought so. If I were you, I would not agree. I believe we, translators, help those people spoil the translation industry, and then we complain. If everyone had refused to use a lame tool, its developers would have been obliged to improve it more quickly and efficiently; however, as users seem to be satisfied with such lameness, so they must need more lameness!

Kind regards,
Yasmin



[Edited at 2012-05-03 20:42 GMT]


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 14:53
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Viewing tag meanings May 3, 2012

Yasmin Moslem wrote:
Samuel Murray wrote:
Furthermore the tags in WFP do not show their underlying meaning, which certain other similar programs do.

Cannot you see the content of a tag if you move the cursor on it (in a yellow tool-tip) or when you press Ctrl+Alt+Right (at the bottom of Wordfast Pro interface)?


Aah, yes, now I see it. It would never have occurred to me to hover my mouse over the tag.


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 14:53
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Font face change May 3, 2012

Dominique Pivard wrote:
Samuel Murray wrote:
Are those two programs also tagless with font *face* changes?

Pardon my ignorance, but you'll have to tell me what a font face change is!


Sorry... I'm giving away my age. I meant if you have a sentence in e.g. Arial and there is a word in the middle of it in e.g. Courier New. How would MemoQ (and Trados 2009) indicate the change in the font?


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