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Déja Vu compatibility with Wordfast Pro
Thread poster: fourth

fourth  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 19:05
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
Nov 27, 2013

One of my agencies uses Déja Vu and sends me files which are lists of phrases. This is not very useful to me as a Wordfast user. Would it not be possible for the agency to provide an original document and I send back a TMX file? I should be grateful for advice.

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AllegroTrans  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:05
Member (2011)
French to English
+ ...
Déja Vu Nov 27, 2013

Dear Fourth

I read your concerns about Déja Vu with a good deal of sympathy. But first of all I want you to know that these impressions you have of "being there before" or "this happened to me before" are not unusual at your age. It is all part of growing up and your mind is trying to keep pace with your growing teenage body.

What could be very helpful for you is to share your Déja Vu experiences with your family and friends and to get them to tell you their own stories about this. A good laugh with your mates ought to take a weight of your shoulders and help you to realise that you are completely normal.

If you still feel uncomfortable it might be a good idea to seek help from a professional counsellor. She would be able to help you explore your feelings in a safe environment and to support you as you come to terms with your issues.

In the meantime you might be interested in this link: http://psychcentral.com/news/2007/06/08/deja-vu-explained-by-brain-research/884.html

I wish you well and please write to me again in six months time because people don't write to me any more. They think they can solve all their problems on Facebook.

Sincerely

Marjorie


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fourth  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 19:05
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Allegro you are a bounder Nov 27, 2013

Having just spent 5 minutes replying to you in similar jocular vein Mrs Marge O'Leggro, I lost it as there is no save facility here. Or rather because my aged fingers fumbled a key.

It's a serious question. My average from this agency has dropped by some €1 500 a month over the past 6 months and I'm not smiling even as broadly as my National Health dentures and zimmer frame allow.

I have discussed this fully with friends, Marge as you suggest, but none of them has been able to shed any light on it.

I should have thought that agencies would want to offer their work to the best translator rather than to whoever happens to have a couple of quid in their pockets to buy their software. And again, I thought that the whole point about Translation tools was that they were compatible via TMX files.

If I can't put a persuasive case forward to receive original documents and supply TMXs in return, at least I might be able to rid myself of the feeling that this agency is losing its focus from marketing and quality to become embroigled in administrational jobsworth-ism.

Tell me how it is, Marge


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Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:05
Finnish to French
Invest in the tool Nov 27, 2013

fourth wrote:
My average from this agency has dropped by some €1 500 a month over the past 6 months

If you could be sure you'd get €1500 worth of extra work each month from this agency by merely fitting into their workflow (= using the same tool as them), you definitely should invest in a copy of Déjà Vu. Déjà Vu used to be one of the most expensive tools on the market (about €1000 for the Professional edition and €2500 for the Workgroup edition) a few years ago, but it's now heavily discounted almost all the time. Right now, you can get a copy of the Professional edition for less than €300 and that includes the upgrade to the soon-to-be-released DVX3 version.

Once you have a copy of the tool, you have a lot of freedom to design your own workflow around it, for instance using your tool of choice rather than Déjà Vu.


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Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:05
Finnish to French
More information needed Nov 27, 2013

fourth wrote:
One of my agencies uses Déja Vu and sends me files which are lists of phrases.

Can you expand a little bit on what those files with "lists of phrases" are? Are we talking about Word tables in the RTF format, known as "external views" in Déjà Vu speak?
fourth wrote:
This is not very useful to me as a Wordfast user.

Which version of Wordfast (Classic or Pro) are you using?
fourth wrote:
Would it not be possible for the agency to provide an original document and I send back a TMX file?

That would be possible, if there's willingness on their side. It's not ideal, as it wouldn't allow (at least not easily) reviewing of bilingual documents with their own tool.
The standard way to exchange translatable documents between tools is XLIFF. Unfortunately, XLIFF support is rather limited in Wordfast Pro (and non-existent in Classic).


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fourth  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 19:05
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you Dominique...The process is not the end product.... Nov 27, 2013

Hello Dominique
Thank you. Very much.
The listing is on one half of the document with space on the other for entering the translation. Word.
I am using the latest updated version of Wordfast Pro

Do you think that there should be reluctance by the agency to provide an original document, Dominique, given that an awful amount of information comes from viewing documents as a whole and adds greatly to context? And of course this format completely ignores translators' working methods. Personally I believe that anything getting in the way of quality translation is a bad idea.

Review would surely not be by machine, Dominique? I specialize in legal work and most agencies accept that they would be wasting their time checking legal aspects...they generally put on their spell checks and that's it.

I am NOT a process/systems person, D and I certainly won't be buying Trados, Déja Vu, MemoQ and the half dozen other products....the shortest distance from original doc to end product is what interests me.


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AllegroTrans  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:05
Member (2011)
French to English
+ ...
Given that.... Nov 27, 2013

shortest distance is "A to B" ("give me the end product without all the techy") perhaps it is simply time to ditch this agency

BUT: perhaps there are others here who could find a (straightforward) file conversion method. Maybe even somebody who could write some software for a fee


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fourth  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 19:05
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Where are the Hoards? Nov 27, 2013

Allegro I am stunned that I haven't had immediate confirmation from hoards of fellow translators saying "Yes the agency should be able to send the original doc and accept a TMX file"

Is it that no-one actually uses Déja Vu ? Perhaps?


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Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:05
Finnish to French
The outcome depends on your bargaining power Nov 27, 2013

fourth wrote:
The listing is on one half of the document with space on the other for entering the translation. Word.

OK, it sounds like an "external view". Not the ideal representation of the original document to be translated, especially if it's loaded with tags, as is often the case in Déjà Vu. Not ideal with Wordfast Pro.
fourth wrote:
I am using the latest updated version of Wordfast Pro

You may want to ask them to send you an XLIFF file instead of the Word file. They should be able to get one of those, if they have the Workgroup edition (as is probably the case if it's an agency).
You'd have to do a round-trip test with Wordfast Pro on a sample file, to be on the safe side.
fourth wrote:
Do you think that there should be reluctance by the agency to provide an original document, Dominique, given that an awful amount of information comes from viewing documents as a whole and adds greatly to context? And of course this format completely ignores translators' working methods. Personally I believe that anything getting in the way of quality translation is a bad idea.

I'm with you here, but I'm not the one facing an opportunity loss of €1500 per month with a single client. I'm merely suggesting ways to avoid that loss, even though they are not ideal.

I personally like to think my clients hire me because of my perceived talents as a translator, my knowledge of the subject matter etc., not because I happen to be proficient in tool X or Y.
fourth wrote:
Review would surely not be by machine, Dominique? I specialize in legal work and most agencies accept that they would be wasting their time checking legal aspects...they generally put on their spell checks and that's it.

Of course, it depends on many factors. It is not uncommon for in-house human reviewers to go through bilingual documents, in which case it's more convenient for them to have said documents in the format used by their tool. But based on what you said, it looks like you'd have some bargaining power with them and they would be willing to accommodate your preferences as a translator.
fourth wrote:
I am NOT a process/systems person, D and I certainly won't be buying Trados, Déja Vu, MemoQ and the half dozen other products....the shortest distance from original doc to end product is what interests me.

I understand your point. Many, if not most, translators want to translate rather than deal with lots of technical issues, conversions etc.


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Jorge Payan  Identity Verified
Colombia
Local time: 12:05
Member (2002)
German to Spanish
+ ...
You can always process the "external view" in WFP Nov 28, 2013

Although I rather use DVX2 for translating txml files, I can also figure out myself the procedure to follow for translating the "External view" (rtf) in WFP:

- Copy the text in the source column to the target column
- Select all text in the file and make it "hidden"
- Un"hide" the text in the target column
- Open in WFP and proceed to translate

A more straight forward approach indeed would be to ask the customer to send you the "External View" in xliff format instead of rtf. You can open and translate xliff in the current version of WFP

Saludos


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Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:05
Finnish to French
DV tags? Nov 28, 2013

Jorge Payan wrote:
Although I rather use DVX2 for translating txml files, I can also figure out myself the procedure to follow for translating the "External view" (rtf) in WFP:

- Copy the text in the source column to the target column
- Select all text in the file and make it "hidden"
- Un"hide" the text in the target column
- Open in WFP and proceed to translate

How would you deal with the {1}, {2} etc. tags in WFP?
Jorge Payan wrote:
A more straight forward approach indeed would be to ask the customer to send you the "External View" in xliff format instead of rtf. You can open and translate xliff in the current version of WFP

Hopefully, DV tags in the XLIFF would appear as tags once imported in WFP. I have no experience at all with XLIFF files created by DV.


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fourth  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 19:05
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Testing Nov 28, 2013

Jorge and Dominique, I am profoundly grateful for your comments and shall try to test copying and hiding to see whether I can get it to work.

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fourth  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 19:05
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Preference for Original Docs Nov 28, 2013

I would say that I should GREATLY prefer original documents

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Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:05
Finnish to French
Tell that to your client! Nov 28, 2013

fourth wrote:
I would say that I should GREATLY prefer original documents

You may very well manage to get them. As I said, it all depends on your bargaining power with them: start twisting their arm and see what happens


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Jorge Payan  Identity Verified
Colombia
Local time: 12:05
Member (2002)
German to Spanish
+ ...
Handling of tags depends on External View format Nov 28, 2013

[quote]
Dominique Pivard wrote:

Jorge Payan wrote:
Although I rather use DVX2 for translating txml files, I can also figure out myself the procedure to follow for translating the "External view" (rtf) in WFP:

- Copy the text in the source column to the target column
- Select all text in the file and make it "hidden"
- Un"hide" the text in the target column
- Open in WFP and proceed to translate


How would you deal with the {1}, {2} etc. tags in WFP?


The "rouge" codes (DV tags) must be copied and pasted from source to target in WFP

Jorge Payan wrote:
A more straight forward approach indeed would be to ask the customer to send you the "External View" in xliff format instead of rtf. You can open and translate xliff in the current version of WFP

Hopefully, DV tags in the XLIFF would appear as tags once imported in WFP. I have no experience at all with XLIFF files created by DV.


WFP will "encapsulate" the Xliff tags and they will appear as WFP tags ("ut1", "ut2", etc.)

Saludos


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