Keeping the source and target text in the same document
Thread poster: Jennifer Baker

Jennifer Baker  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:24
Member (2004)
Italian to English
Jul 31, 2006

Hi all,
I have a client who has asked me to translate a series of technical sheets (only about 100 words each), and I need to leave the Italian text above the English text. I want to use Wordfast, as the material is very technical and I have most of the terminology in my TM.
Can I do that? Or will I have to do a major cut and paste operation (there are 200 sheets!!)?
Thanks in advance!
Jennifer


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xxxNMR
France
Local time: 21:24
French to Dutch
+ ...
What you can do Jul 31, 2006

is to do some search&replace sessions on the translated file, for instance replace the coloured codes by a hard return and replace hidden characters by non-hidden ones. I asked this question to Mr. Champollion some years ago, but there was no other suitable solution.

The other methods are: copy and paste paragraphs, or copy everything in Excel and deliver a bilingual Excel file.


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Angela Dickson  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:24
French to English
+ ...
idea... Jul 31, 2006

I think you might have to do a certain amount of cutting and pasting... what I'd probably do is translate the whole lot using Wordfast, do the initial checks with the segments present in both languages, then clean up the doc. Then you have the Italian and English docs in their final forms, which can be interleaved as your client describes (here's where the cutting and pasting comes in).

I wonder if there's a less labour-intensive way of doing it?


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Daniel Ehret  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 21:24
French to Hungarian
+ ...
another idea Jul 31, 2006

What about converting the text in the doc files into a table, with the usual punctuation marks as segment delimiters and save 2 copies. You can then work on one of these with Wordfast to translate the text and then clean it up.
Once you finished, you open the other file, insert a new column to the right and paste the translated column here.
To finish it all, you re-convert the table to text, and you'll then have what you need (probably...)

I hope my idea is clear enough...

[Módosítva: 2006-07-31 12:16]


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Eva Blanar  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 21:24
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Table format Jul 31, 2006

Bilingual documents I usually produce in a table format, I think that is more handy than source text above + target text below, at any rate, it is easier to read.

You can do that by converting the original and the target text, in separate files, into tables. (You can proceed by smaller portions, it might be faster.) For that, in Word, you select Table > Convert > Text to table and you select the option with 1 column. (Paragraph mark is the best way to split the text into cells, if you need the whole thing by sentences, I'd suggest to use some special sign, otherwise the numbers can mess it all up.) You can also write a simple macro, if you proceed by smaller portions of the text.

To join the two languages, I usually add one more column to the right in the source language file (already in table format), ie. select the column > add column; and then, I copy the columns from the target language text into those cells.

By the way, I know you can do in Trados something that makes source text appear first and with target text below, by sentences, even in different colours, but I am far from knowing that much about Trados...


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xxxNMR
France
Local time: 21:24
French to Dutch
+ ...
The problem is Jul 31, 2006

that some clients don't want a table (in Excel or Word) but insist on having the translation underneath, sentence by sentence or paragraph by paragraph, sometimes even in another colour or in italics.

You can also begin by copying every sentence or paragraph, and then translate every second one, each time closing and opening WF again. After cleaning up the file will be bilingual.
Hope this helps.... ??


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Daniel Ehret  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 21:24
French to Hungarian
+ ...
Without tables Aug 1, 2006

NMR wrote:

[the problem is] that some clients don't want a table (in Excel or Word) but insist on having the translation underneath, sentence by sentence or paragraph by paragraph, sometimes even in another colour or in italics.


In the "Hungarian" solution proposed by Eva and me, there are no tables in the final file, these are just needed in order to achieve the needed result (source sentence/paragraph, target sentence/paragraph).


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xxxNMR
France
Local time: 21:24
French to Dutch
+ ...
The idea is great Aug 1, 2006

Daniel Ehret wrote:
To finish it all, you re-convert the table to text, and you'll then have what you need (probably...)

But did you try it? The procedure is not sure at all, and you'll have to adjust lots of things afterwards.


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Jennifer Baker  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:24
Member (2004)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
I've figured something out Aug 2, 2006

I've figured out what works best in my situation-
My client definitely doesn't want a table. I have almost 200 separate documents...
Here's what I'm doing: I paste a duplicate of the Italian text beneath the original. I force wordfast to start the session here, and when I'm finished I clean up and have the Italian on top and English below.
It's working quite well!

My Best-
Jennifer


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Daniel Ehret  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 21:24
French to Hungarian
+ ...
No problems Aug 2, 2006

NMR wrote:
But did you try it? The procedure is not sure at all, and you'll have to adjust lots of things afterwards.


Actually I did, and nothing got wrong. But maybe I was just lucky, you never know with computers)


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 21:24
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
If formatting doesn't matter, it's easy Aug 2, 2006

JL Baker wrote:
I need to leave the Italian text above the English text. I want to use Wordfast...


Great, you're licked! Simply translate the entire thing in WordFast, then highlight everything (Ctrl+A) en change the text formatting to default (Ctrl+Spacebar). Then add hardreturns after each segment, and then remove all the tw4win tags.

==
Edited: Grrr, unfortunately Proz.com's forum/s parse what it thinks is HTML, and it removed the Find/Replace examples I gave in this post. I've uploaded it to my web space:
http://www.leuce.com/tempfile/52374.txt



[Edited at 2006-08-02 08:27]


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Eva Blanar  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 21:24
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Samuel's method saves you a lot of time Aug 2, 2006

I think this is a great method, I never thought of that. (It's true I am mostly required to deliver formatted translations. BTW that's the great thing about the table format - actually, it shall not necessarily remain a table, you can convert a table into text again, and it'll even remain a formatted file.)

One more idea, where all the copy & paste trouble at least at the beginning is that you duplicate each sentence of paragraph in a first go, and then, you translate with WordFast every second sentence/ paragraph only. (There is a button "copy source text" or something like that. I use it sometimes when a sentence is particularly silly or I am already too tired to face the problem: then I can come back to it a bit later or on the next day.) When you clean it up, you'll have a bilingual document. The advantage is that you can break up the text anywhere, you can integrate TUs, as you wish.

Wish you success, it'll work.

Sorry, I see only now that this duplication has been already suggested by NMR. (Welcome on board, by the way.)



[Módosítva: 2006-08-02 17:11]


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