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XTM is a murderer.
Thread poster: Donglai Lou

Donglai Lou  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 14:29
Member (2002)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Aug 4, 2013

In China , we have a saying: if you kill others' time, you are murdering their lives. This is what XTM is doing.

Without doubt, XTM is not my favorite CAT tool, as it is a premature product with limited functions. the good thing is that it let you download the project files as xliff files to be processed with other CAT tools.

However, the nightmare is it occasionally just refused to accept your translated xliff files without telling why. sometimes, it is because some tags are missing and this problem can be fixed easily. however, in the other times like today, it just left you in desperate in the early morning or deep night.

I beg the murderers or accomplices at XTM to show some mercy and improve your products quickly. you need to tell the users know what's wrong with his/her files and how to fix them. or you can allow partial imports and highlight the missing strings.

besides, your way to count Chinese words/characters is helping the agency exploiting Chinese translators.

anyway, at the current stage, I am seriously considering to turn down any requests needing XTM.


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Donglai Lou  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 14:29
Member (2002)
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
The Customer Service is Great Aug 5, 2013

anyway, they did help me solve the problem in a few hours. I really appreciate it.

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XTM Intl
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:29
XLIFF problem Aug 5, 2013

Hello Donglai,

Thank you for contacting XTM Support directly and sending the XLIFF file which has been successfully imported to the system. Our developers are already working on a permanent fix that will prevent such situations in the future.

Kind regards,
XTM Support Team


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Patricia Novelo  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 00:29
English to Spanish
+ ...
XTM Aug 5, 2013

Hi,
Same thing in Mexico, the word count is terrible and be careful because if you have a dispute with the company you are translating for this is a portal to your computer and people (translation companies) can enter your computer hack all the information you have from them the lack of security in this sense may cause a disaster in your computer and documents.


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XTM Intl
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:29
Security Aug 5, 2013

Hello Particia,

If you wish to learn more about the XTM Security, please view the security documentation, which can be found here:
http://xtm-intl.com/files/content/xtm/resources/XTM%20Security%20Document.pdf

Kind regards,
XTM Support Team


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philgoddard
United States
German to English
+ ...
. Aug 5, 2013

I just wanted to compliment you on your attention-grabbing headline

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Donglai Lou  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 14:29
Member (2002)
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
This is my true feeling. Aug 5, 2013

philgoddard wrote:

I just wanted to compliment you on your attention-grabbing headline


After a long day work, I was extremely exhausted and just wanted to go to bed after uploading the file. the uploading failed and I couldn't figure out the reason. it was just as I was just on the edge of mental and physical breakdown.

the same thing did happened to Trados or other CAT tools. but I could always manage to get a solution as I had everything on hand. Unfortunately with a cloud solution, you have to wait for an answer. you know, waiting is always a painful process:(.


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XTM Intl
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:29
RE: XTM Aug 6, 2013

Dear Patricia,

Please be aware that XTM uses the GMX/V Word Count Standard. This is an ETSI LIS standard and is being adopted by the Localization Industry. Regarding the 'hack' that you mentioned, we do not understand your concern. There is no way in which XTM could access data on your computer. XTM is only used via the browser and you connect to XTM and not the other way around. We are an ethical company and would never acquiesce to any such activity.

Kind regards,
XTM Support Team


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XTM Intl
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:29
RE: This is my true feeling. Aug 6, 2013

Dear Donglai Lou,

Thank you for your post. Please be aware that since version 7.5 XTM has a fully featured XTM Offline Editor based on Microsoft Excel. You can download the Excel form via the 'Files->Offline Translation' page. Click on the 'Generate' icon and choose 'Excel' as the file format. The XTM Offline Excel mode is much better for working in offline mode. Once you have finished translating just upload the resultant Excel file. The XTM Offline Editor requires Microsoft Excel 2007 or later versions.

Kind regards,
XTM Support Team


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Donglai Lou  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 14:29
Member (2002)
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
A few recommendations Aug 6, 2013

XTM Intl wrote:

Dear Donglai Lou,

Thank you for your post. Please be aware that since version 7.5 XTM has a fully featured XTM Offline Editor based on Microsoft Excel. You can download the Excel form via the 'Files->Offline Translation' page. Click on the 'Generate' icon and choose 'Excel' as the file format. The XTM Offline Excel mode is much better for working in offline mode. Once you have finished translating just upload the resultant Excel file. The XTM Offline Editor requires Microsoft Excel 2007 or later versions.

Kind regards,
XTM Support Team


Dear Sir,

First, please understand I am with you rather than simply complain about the XTM.

second, I believe you'd better create something for the translators rather than for yourself or PMs. for example, the excel file you mentioned, I did download it but found it is 150mb "huge" and slow down my system without any obvious icons to link my local TM and termbase. Thus, I closed it after 15 minutes. I am not sure how many people translate using excel.

Third, for the wordcount, once there was a 30K Chinese into English job. the client said it was only 12K, which was the analysis result of XTM. another thing is the prevailing stats model of counting words. I can give numerous samples of false results. for instance there is only one identical word in a three word segment, the result is 66% match. in a segment of 30 words, only less than 14 words are repeated, the result is as high as 73% match. (my friend gave me a formula to show how this was calculated.) I understand this is not your problem as it is a kind of "bullying and exploiting industry standard." it's hard for me to believe this will be something proposed or endorsed by real translators.

Fourth, the XTM doesn't support Chinese well. the main problem is with corrector' changes. even if the proofreader changes only one character, the whole sentence appear red. it is very time consuming and bad to eyes.

Wish XTM better and better, so our hard life could be a bit easier.

best regards,
Donglai Lou


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XTM Intl
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:29
RE: A few recommendations Aug 6, 2013

Dear Donglai Lou,

Thank you for your feedback. The XTM Offline Editor is an encapsulated application that contains all of the required translation assets within the application and does not require any connection to desktop resources.

Please could you email the 150mb file to support@xtm-intl.com - we will have a look at the issue. We have tested the XTM Offline Editor with files with over 30k segments without any problems.

Regarding the Chinese word counts, the GMX/V standard uses a factor of 2.8 to divide the number of Unicode characters to arrive at a word count. This is an acknowledged industry factor.

We note your comment regarding the corrector changes and will raise a change request for this.
If you have any other comments please forward them to us for consideration.

Kind regards,
XTM Support Team


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JaneD  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 07:29
Member (2009)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Just say "no" Aug 6, 2013

Just don't use it if it's that much hassle.

I have a client that occasionally contacts me and offers me jobs, and as an afterthought says "Oh, and it needs to be done in XTM", to which I always say "Well in that case I can't help you". They always then decide that in fact it doesn't need to be done in XTM.

I'm happy to try all CAT tools once. Or even a few times. But when it's clear that there's absolutely no benefit to me, and that in fact it makes what ought to be a simple job much more difficult, then I just refuse to use them.

I've recently made the same decision with a client with an inhouse system that was probably OK 8 or 9 years ago when it first came out but which now just can't compete with a fully fledged CAT. They need to take the decision to abandon it, but they refuse to accept the inevitability yet. But as a freelancer, there's no reason why *I* should accept their system.


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Donglai Lou  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 14:29
Member (2002)
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Don't just live in your own world. Aug 7, 2013

Dear Sir,

Here is an example that you are designing a product for yourself.


Thank you for your feedback. The XTM Offline Editor is an encapsulated application that contains all of the required translation assets within the application and does not require any connection to desktop resources.


The reason why I need my local resources is they are relevant to projects. some are valuable existing resources which I can reuse in the new projects to save some efforts. I can't upload these resources to your platform for security and other concerns.

as for the workcount ratio, I have raised this to the community in the Chinese social network "weibo" and here: http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/254030-chinese_to_english_conversion_ratio.html#2180074. no one agrees with you or that so-called standard by a bankrupt organization, which I assume is no longer updated.

As you see, quite a few translator are complaining about your wordcount methods (it seems that Chinese is not the only one with problems.) you may have misinterpreted the standard or the standard itself is problematic. I mentioned the name of the standard to the community, too. it seems only one person knows it. sorry for our ignorance.

we are just fighting for fairness. if you can align your method with MS Word at a tolerance of +-5% that would be great.

As you quote that standard so frequently in your replies, please do report our complaints to the standard provider. if you want to be a industry leader, you can't blindly follow the standard but verify and help improve them.

best regards,
Donglai Lou


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XTM Intl
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:29
RE: Don't just live in your own world. Aug 7, 2013

Dear Donglai Lou,

Regarding Chinese word count factors, GMX/V 2.0 is an official ETSI LIS standard since 2012. ETSI took over the original GMX/V 1.0 standard from LISA which only mandated character counts for Chinese. The Chinese word count factor of 2.8 is the acknowledged industry ratio that has been used by major LSPs for many years. Some of the top 10 LSPs are on the ETSI LIS technical committee. GMX/V was published extensively for public comment by ETSI in 2012 and no feedback was received regarding the ratios. There have also been numerous webinars and presentations regarding GMX/V and L10N standards by Gala and other organizations.

If you feel that the ratio is not accurate, please direct comments to ETSI LIS. I can also raise the issues on your behalf as I am a member of ETSI LIS. Please write to me personally regarding this. It would be very helpful to get an acknowledged Chinese academic expert to present your case.

Kind regards,
XTM Support Team


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Dragomanltd
Local time: 09:29
Agencies must learn how to customize XTM Nov 16, 2013

Hi,

We are a long term user of XTM and local partner in Turkey.
I think it is worth to mention that wordcount conversion factors are customizable in XTM. It is not a fixed ratio and agencies can always update it.

Agencies must learn how to customize XTM to better suit their needs & projects.

One more note: Translators can upload / download their TMs and terminology lists if the agency allows them. In our experience, our senior linguists and trusted core team have higher access levels to the translation assets. I do not mean to interfere with individual agency policies, but perhaps you can advice them to contact XTM training team and learn the administrative aspects more.
Regards


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