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才 (2/2)

English translation: before, not until, only when, only if

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Chinese term or phrase:才
English translation:before, not until, only when, only if
Entered by: Roddy Stegemann

07:09 Nov 9, 2006
Chinese to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Linguistics / Grammatical Analysis
Chinese term or phrase: 才 (2/2)
Sentence: 母親對孩子們說：「吃的東西，一定要洗得很乾淨才可以吃，你們知道嗎？」

First Attempt: The mother asked her children,"Did you know that you should always wash your food well before you eat it?"

Question One (1/2): This appears to be one of those cases where the possessive referent could be understood.

In brief, do the words 母親 and 孫子 tell us anything about the relationship between the speaker, mother, and the children in question? For example, can the words 母親 refer to anyone's mother? Similarly, can the word 孫子 refer to anyone's children? (In Japanese, for example, the choice of word that one uses to indicate someone's mother (either one's own or some else's) depends on the relationship that one holds to the mentioned mother.)

Question Two (2/2): In this context I have assumed that the construction Ｂ才Ａ can mean either "B before Ａ" or "not Ａ, until Ｂ"? Could I replace the word 才 with 先 in this context and still express the same idea? Is there a special nuance that I would be missing?

The PRO aspect of this question is the answer -- not the term! Please give it your best.

REMARK: The storm has passed, but the damage has reminded me that the Tsong Kit project is second to the HKLNA project, and future postings will be cut in half. Rather than posting once every day, I will only post three to four times a week depending on EARTH's time schedule. This will also provide more time for thorough responses.

As always you are welcome to comment on other parts of the translation.

Please see http://homepage.mac.com/moogoonghwa/tsongkit/contents.html#p... for further reference.

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Roddy Stegemann
United States
Local time: 15:24
before/until
Explanation:
Question Two (2/2): In this context I have assumed that the construction Ｂ才Ａ can mean either "B before Ａ" or "not Ａ, until Ｂ"? Could I replace the word 才 with 先 in this context and still express the same idea? Is there a special nuance that I would be missing?

Your interpretation is correct. The character 才 in this sentence gives it the meaning of "you have to thoroughly wash your food before you eat it" or "you should not eat your food until you thoroughly wash it".

The English equivalent is exactly how you summarized it: Ｂ才Ａ can mean either "B before Ａ" or "not Ａ, until Ｂ"

However, 先 cannot replace 才 in this instance.

先 is typically used in conjunction with 才 in the following manner:

一定要先洗得很乾淨才可以吃 (先B才A)

This is actually a better worded sentence than the one provided, IMO. As you can see, the use of 先 is entirely optional.

Here are some examples that follow this construction:

你先做好作业才能去
你做好作业才能去 you have to finish your homework before you go

他先订好机票才上路
他订好机票才上路 he reserved his plane ticket before heading out
Selected response from:

wherestip
United States
Local time: 17:24
Grading comment
Final Rendering: The mother asked her children,"Did you know that you must always wash your food well before you eat it?"

Acknowledgment: My thanks to both wherestip and beschicht (see http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1632042) for their useful comments with regard to the use of 先 and 才. I incorporated both into the Tsong Kit website.

I must award the points to wherestip, if for no other reason, there is no place to award points to beschicht. Wherestip's examples were both useful and appropriate.

Discussion: Please see http://homepage.mac.com/moogoonghwa/tsongkit/part3/III-3b-g.html#s11 for further discussion regarding the context of this question.

My very best from the land of no mountains surrounded by sea on many sides.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +2before/until
wherestip


  

Answers


15 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
before/until


Explanation:
Question Two (2/2): In this context I have assumed that the construction Ｂ才Ａ can mean either "B before Ａ" or "not Ａ, until Ｂ"? Could I replace the word 才 with 先 in this context and still express the same idea? Is there a special nuance that I would be missing?

Your interpretation is correct. The character 才 in this sentence gives it the meaning of "you have to thoroughly wash your food before you eat it" or "you should not eat your food until you thoroughly wash it".

The English equivalent is exactly how you summarized it: Ｂ才Ａ can mean either "B before Ａ" or "not Ａ, until Ｂ"

However, 先 cannot replace 才 in this instance.

先 is typically used in conjunction with 才 in the following manner:

一定要先洗得很乾淨才可以吃 (先B才A)

This is actually a better worded sentence than the one provided, IMO. As you can see, the use of 先 is entirely optional.

Here are some examples that follow this construction:

你先做好作业才能去
你做好作业才能去 you have to finish your homework before you go

他先订好机票才上路
他订好机票才上路 he reserved his plane ticket before heading out


wherestip
United States
Local time: 17:24
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in ChineseChinese
PRO pts in category: 16
Grading comment
Final Rendering: The mother asked her children,"Did you know that you must always wash your food well before you eat it?"

Acknowledgment: My thanks to both wherestip and beschicht (see http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1632042) for their useful comments with regard to the use of 先 and 才. I incorporated both into the Tsong Kit website.

I must award the points to wherestip, if for no other reason, there is no place to award points to beschicht. Wherestip's examples were both useful and appropriate.

Discussion: Please see http://homepage.mac.com/moogoonghwa/tsongkit/part3/III-3b-g.html#s11 for further discussion regarding the context of this question.

My very best from the land of no mountains surrounded by sea on many sides.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  pkchan
1 hr
  -> Thanks, pk
agree  anastasia t (X)
1 day 1 hr
  -> Thanks, anastasia
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