常常

English translation: can regularly perform A

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

Chinese term or phrase:	常常會Ａ
English translation:	can regularly perform A
Entered by:	Roddy Stegemann

14:35 Dec 26, 2006

Chinese to English translations [Non-PRO]
Social Sciences - Linguistics / Grammatical Analysis

Chinese term or phrase: 常常

Sentence: 住在飛機埸對面的人，常常會看到飛機降落跟起飛的情形。

First Attempt (1): People who live opposite the airport can often observe take-off and landings.

First Attempt (2): People who live opposite the airport regularly observe the conditions for take-off and landing.

Question: I am somewhat perplexed by the conceptual juxtaposition of the words 常常 and 情形. On the one hand, one might think that one frequently 常常 sees planes take off and land. On the other hand, one can imagine how easy it must be for someone to observe (whenever one might like) the general airport conditions (weather, air and ground traffic, etc.) as they apply to the take off and landing of planes.

Please choose which of the above two translations you prefer, or provide your own. Justify your preference taking into consideration the observations I have provided.

Please see http://homepage.mac.com/moogoonghwa/tsongkit/contents.html#p... for further reference.

As always you are welcome to comment on other parts of the sentence, if you find them in error or would like to suggest an improvement.

Warning: In order to provide ProZ.com users with the best glossary entries possible, more than one question for the same entry will be asked from time to time. Please keep in mind when responding that you will be graded on your responses to ALL questions asked.

Roddy Stegemann KudoZ activity Questions: 666 (4 open) (6 without valid answers) (3 closed without grading) Answers: 1221 United States
Local time: 23:48

very often

Explanation:
I will choose Attempt (2)
Reasons: For those who live around the airport, what they can often see is a "situation" , a "phenomenon". What type of phenomenon do they see very often? That is the "conditions for take-off and landing". Those conditions include the direction of the wind, wind speed, the size of the airplane, skills of the pilot, the air traffic of the airport, and the time of the day. All these will determine how the "take-off and landing" will be like. It was a fascinating experience for a child living at the end of the Prince Edward Road near the Kai Tak Airport. I think the emphasis should be on the situation, the phenomenon, the conditions of the "landing and taken off", rather than merely the "landing and taken off" itself.

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Note added at 1 day25 mins (2006-12-27 15:00:43 GMT)
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2255886786651629007...

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Note added at 1 day40 mins (2006-12-27 15:16:01 GMT)
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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6857077272674832140...

Selected response from:

pkchan
United States
Local time: 02:48

Grading comment

Final Rendering: People living opposite the airport can regularly observe the take-off and landing conditions of planes.

Acknowledgment:

Fang Sheng: Most people who have seen the take-off and landing of planes are those who ride them -- namely, tourists and business people; nevertheless, very few people live near airports and watch them on a regular basis. In the end, it is these latter who are the focus of this sentence, are they not?

chincorp: It would appear that your preference for number one is similarly based to that of Fang Sheng's -- that to which most people are accustomed, rather than that experienced by those who live close to airports.

Moreover, you do not justify your preference for "across from" over "opposite of" or "opposite to". The phrase "across from" usually implies the notion of opposite but with a barrier or space that must be crossed such as a road, track, river, table, or even room to get to the other side. The existence of such a barrier or space is not implied in the sentence.

PK: You knocked me over with your video clips and convinced me that you understand well the author's intended meaning. I have tried to strike a compromise between your phrasing and the expressed popular preferences of Fang Sheng and chincorp.

Lesley: You have certainly posed some interesting grammatical challenges. Firstly, there is good reason to believe, as PK suggests, that the author is referring to a very specific airport. This is because great discussion took place in Hong Kong when the airport was moved from Kai Tak to Chek Lap Kok Island.

I agree that that the phrase 住在飛機埸對面的人 is surely a topic or introductory phrase used as a subject in the Chinese sentence, but do not understand why the idea contained in 常常 must appear at the head of the English sentence. Perhaps, I view the use of the word 對面 in this context in a more restricted sense meaning "facing", rather than "nearby" or "adjacent to". In any case, I have modified the phrase "regularly see" "can regularly observe". Please see below for a more thorough discussion.

Discussion: Please see http://homepage.mac.com/moogoonghwa/tsongkit/part3/III-4-g.html#s7 for further discussion regarding the context of this question.

By the way, thank to everyone for your patience with regard to the grading of this question. The recent earthquake near the southern tip of Taiwan largely disconnected Hong Kong from internet communication with the Japan and the United States for several days. Hong Kongers can be grateful that we have been reconnected in time for the New Year's celebration. Streaming remains impaired, however.

My very best from the land of no mountains surrounded by sea on many sides.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +1

I prefer attempt 1

Fang Sheng

first attempt

chincorp (X)

3 +1

very often

pkchan

more often than not; very often (it is true that)

chica nueva

Answers

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

I prefer attempt 1

Explanation:
It appears to have a more natural flow in Chinese. Happy Holidays!

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Note added at 1 hr (2006-12-26 16:27:30 GMT)
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I mean in English translation...

Fang Sheng
Canada
Local time: 02:48
Native speaker of:

Chinese

Notes to answerer

Asker: As a native speaker I find both English translations equally could with regard to flow; simply, they mean very different things. In this end, this is what my question is about -- the implied meaning of the Chinese sentence and the use of 常常 in this context.

18 hrs confidence:

first attempt first attempt

Explanation:
I'd go with the first attempt as well.

For the first part of the sentence, I'd suggest the translation: "People who live across from the airport".

chincorp (X)
Native speaker of:

English

1 day 15 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

very often

pkchan
United States
Local time: 02:48
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

Chinese
PRO pts in category: 11

Grading comment

2 days 18 hrs confidence:

more often than not; very often (it is true that)

Explanation:
1 IMO this 常常 should be translated first in the English sentence to qualify the whole statement.
2 IMO the statement is a general statement about all people who live directly opposite airports. If you were to classify this sentence, it would be an objective observation; a statement of fact. It is not about a particular airport, I suggest (but I may be wrong).

More often than not, people who live directly opposite an airport can see how the planes take off and land.

[There might be some people who live opposite airport terminals who cannot see how the planes take off and land, perhaps because their houses are too low to give a line of vision. Apart from that there is usually nothing to block their view. If the planes land and take off far away on the other side of the airfield, they can use binoculars.]

住在飛機埸對面的人, the topic, head word, or subject, comes first in the Chinese sentence. (The grammar books explain it better than this). This is a difference between Chinese and English.

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Note added at 2 days18 hrs (2006-12-29 08:52:51 GMT)
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常常 = frequently; often; many a time; more often than not (外研社:汉英词典)

chica nueva
Local time: 18:48
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 16

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