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query re Ukraine cities

English translation: Official Ukrainian spellings: Kyiv, Kharkiv, Lviv

18:01 Mar 5, 2007
Ukrainian to English translations [PRO]
International Org/Dev/Coop
Ukrainian term or phrase: query re Ukraine cities
I'm editing a text about education in Ukraine, and this is a section referring to the devolution of management and funding of education .......


"initially to the three pilot regions, the City of Kyiv, KHarkiv, Lviv with a possible expansion to ..."

I'm a bit confused with the punctuation and the "City of", and wondering whether Kyiv is Kiev...

So, my Q is:

are these 3 different cities?
are these names OK in English?

TIA:-)
Lia Fail (X)
Spain
Local time: 01:28
English translation:Official Ukrainian spellings: Kyiv, Kharkiv, Lviv
Explanation:
But they are commonly known by their Russian equivalents: Kiev, Kharkov and Lvov. However, in particular you may offend the residents of Lviv if you call it Lvov!

Depends what you are translating and why. Kiev in particular is a very common spelling.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 mins (2007-03-05 18:13:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Looking back at your question, I'd put the "cities" of Kyiv, Kharkiv and Lviv. If you want to be really fussy, you can put L'viv!
Selected response from:

David Knowles
Local time: 00:28
Grading comment
Thanks V. much to the Ukrainian community for the help:-) It was difficult to choose an answer, but it was (very) marginally more useful than the others:-)
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +13 different cities
Vanda Nissen
4 +2explanation
Sofiya Skachko
4 +1Official Ukrainian spellings: Kyiv, Kharkiv, Lviv
David Knowles
3see...
Kirill Semenov


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
3 different cities


Explanation:
Kyiv, Kharkiv, Lviv

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Note added at 9 mins (2007-03-05 18:10:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Yes, Kyiv means Kiev, just Kyiv reflects Ukrainian spelling and Kiev -the Russian one, both variants are used

Vanda Nissen
Australia
Local time: 09:28
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Vladimir Dubisskiy: simple and clear explanation
6 mins
  -> Спасибо большое, Владимир!:)
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9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
see...


Explanation:
`Cities of Kyiv, Kharkiv, Lviv are perfectly OK'.

It means that the project trying to embrace not only the town itself, but also ist suburbs, which are huge.

Just to let you know: Kyiv=Kiev (you're perfectly right) is the 2nd largest city in the former USSR, and it's almost 3.5-4 millions population now. Just don't take it easily, it's a huge city.

Kirill Semenov
Ukraine
Local time: 02:28
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
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8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Official Ukrainian spellings: Kyiv, Kharkiv, Lviv


Explanation:
But they are commonly known by their Russian equivalents: Kiev, Kharkov and Lvov. However, in particular you may offend the residents of Lviv if you call it Lvov!

Depends what you are translating and why. Kiev in particular is a very common spelling.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 mins (2007-03-05 18:13:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Looking back at your question, I'd put the "cities" of Kyiv, Kharkiv and Lviv. If you want to be really fussy, you can put L'viv!

David Knowles
Local time: 00:28
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thanks V. much to the Ukrainian community for the help:-) It was difficult to choose an answer, but it was (very) marginally more useful than the others:-)

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Kirill Semenov: Sure, David, you've been there, seen that :) + And it'd be great if you visit us again, waiting for this :) Please consider the end of May, it's the best time, you will see Kiev in its best!
1 min
  -> Hi Kirill - won't be this May I'm afraid! You'll have to make do with some Ukrainian questions I'm going to post!
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12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
explanation


Explanation:
the names of the cities are correct

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Note added at 40 mins (2007-03-05 18:41:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I have entered forum discussions regarding "Kiev" before. I'm glad that "the" in front of Ukraine is dropped now in most cases (although it's a long and tiring project to convince people in different spheres that it's sensible and respectful towards an independent Ukraine). It will probably take even longer to regulate the spellings of the cities. Why do I think this should be done? At least for the sake of simplicity and efficiency. So that when I'm booking an airline online I know which spelling to type in, and don't have to try out Kyiv, Kiev, Kyїv, Kyyiv.
I'm glad David Knowles above indicated "official Ukrainian spellings," and I really hope it will slowly pick up in media, politics, academic discourse.

Sofiya Skachko
Denmark
Native speaker of: Ukrainian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Kirill Semenov: I can't agree with this. At least, the names are under heated discussions; in the worst case, you're wrong
8 mins
  -> Кириле, дякую, я слідкую за дискусією
agree  Mihailolja: More than for simplicity the names of these cities as all in Ukraine deserve to be spelt in their Ukrainian spelling ;-)
24 mins
  -> thank you
agree  Vassyl Trylis: Me also of those sensible...
48 mins
  -> дякую :-)
neutral  David Knowles: I understand the feelings, but Kiev in particular is so familiar and Kyiv looks so strange that it's hard to change attitudes.//For anything approaching official translations I agree. For informal conversations/emails, I think I'll stick to Kiev!
50 mins
  -> It should be a mutual effort, of course, to change attitudes. And I think translators should play a role in this.
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