gebolleerd

11:56 Jun 5, 2012 

Interesting.

It would be interesting to know why the company concerned would see 'crowned' as an error. Common sense? :-)

What we don't know about is Michael's company's preference.
If they would prefer 'bulged', or still something else, then you can't say he ended up with the 'correct answer'. :-)

However, he definitely found something that is considered correct at least somewhere and they can't claim he did not research the matter. :-)

07:57 Jun 5, 2012 

My apologies for not replying sooner, but I only visit this site on occasion and I only noticed your remark now. As we all know translation is not an exact science. I provided the answer as it is listed on a glossary provided by a major producer of various types of conveyor belts and if I would translate gebolleerd as crowned in their documents they would see that as an error. Having said that, I have seen instances in other technical documents where terms are translated differently for different companies, depending on the preference of the company in question.

In this instance Michael came across a term that he did not know how to translate, I provided an answer and even though he did not accept that answer, it seems like it did help him to find the correct answer through a healthy debate by various contributors, so this forum served its purpose, which is what it is all about at the end of the day. It is nice to see the passion you all show for your profession.

16:30 Jun 2, 2012 

@ Michael

Do it in your own good time.
Thank you for letting me know.
Have a good weekend.

16:16 Jun 2, 2012 

Yeah, sorry about that MechaPhysica question Barend. It slipped under my radar. I'll wind it up as soon as I have a spare moment.

15:34 Jun 2, 2012 

Lianne, don't tell me what I should do, I can decide for myself.
Apart from this, I addressed Michael, not you.

Also, I don't take things personally, I just mention what I think is decent behaviour. And, actually, I am talking here to people just like I am now talking to you.

No hard feelings.

15:09 Jun 2, 2012 

Excellent, Michael.

Barend, please don't go off topic about MechaPhysica - whatever that is - on this post.

And if I did not respond soon enough to your message ("it's a pity your don't respond to the argument"), it was because it was bed time in the US (or maybe I was working). Also: this is a public forum, not a conversation. Please don't take things personally. Our posts will be here forever for everyone to read.

I added an additional link in the reference section about the verb "crowning". See here too, then:
http://www.webconinc.com/Papermaking/crowning.html

12:11 Jun 2, 2012 

I just found your message.

I would say this could be considered as a kind of definite proof that 'crowned' is 'round', or 'round' is 'crowned', after all. :-)
Good thing you found this English file, without it I would not have accepted it and I think for good reasons.

I would like to ask Johan, however

@ Johan, what do you think of this? Could you have a look at these documents as well? And do you think you can still justify using 'rounded'? It can still be right but 'crowned' is perhaps better now that we know this.

@ Michael, another question.

You asked me a question about a translation for 'MechaPhysica'.
I gave you an answer. However, you haven't replied so far.

I don't like it that I am not answered when I am talking to somebody. Especially when I am giving a genuine reply.

As far as I know and as far as I remember I have always responded to people when they talk to me since I have been around here on Kudoz .
In fact, I don't do this only on Kudoz, I am always doing this.

So could you devote a few words to this answer of mine?

Many thanks in advance.

10:59 Jun 2, 2012 

I went looking if that last PDF you mentioned exists in English, and it does. In it, they call the 'gebolleerde buis': 'crowned shell length'.

• Dutch: http://www.brammer.nl/Downloads/Interrol_catalogus_trommelmo...
• English: http://www.interroll.com/document_show.cfm/DM_techn_info_80s...

I also made a screenshot with the two side by side for easy comparison: http://wordbook.nl/images/gebolleerde=crowned.jpg

03:00 Jun 2, 2012 

it's pity you don't respond to the argument
anyhow, basically, you say implicitly if you can show me a 'gebolleerde trommel' I will go for rounded

most likely other examples can be found

but here is at least one
this one is about a very subtle - continuous - curve
good thing they specified the central diameter and the diameters at the sides

several drums are showed with several diameters
just search using 'gebolleerd' in this pdf

you will find for example

central diameter (diameter A) = 81.5 mm
peripheral diameter (diameter B) = 80 mm
you can also see with your own eyes the continuous, in this case at least, very subtle curve (gebolleerd, rounded) of the drum

it can take a few seconds before it appears:

http://www.brammer.nl/Downloads/Interrol_catalogus_trommelmo...

01:02 Jun 2, 2012 

this is what I mean, if I can show you an image/images of such an object with a continuous curve from side to side, then you would accept that it should, or at least could, be rounded.

00:21 Jun 2, 2012 

Please provide images of the "rounded pulleys" and "gebolleerde trommels".

23:27 Jun 1, 2012 

I was away from home but just returned

Again, I maintain my point of view

I have looked at the images in your new reference

Not one of them is fully rounded, which is particularly clear if you look at one of them, this one is completely like ^

You have also drums which are rounded from side to side, that have just one continuous curve, I have seen them many times and these are also meant to keep this belt in place and are effective in doing this just as well

in fact the linguistics prove to be helpful in this case as well:

'crowned' appears to be crowned, it is about variants of this ^

so crowned = crowned
and round = round

isn't it beautiful that some things are just as they are and appear in their true colours and don't try deceive us in one way or the other?

:-)

16:11 Jun 1, 2012 

Unlike Lianne, I maintain my point of view

this is what you find in copheoske's reference:

Whether tapered or trapezoidal, crowned pulleys consist of a drive pulley with a center diameter that is slightly longer than those of the ends

'tapered or trapezoid' is different from 'rounded' (gebolleerd)

if you ask me what do you think 'crowned' refers to then I would rather think of something like this: ^

"a center diameter that is slightly longer than those of the ends" goes obviously for 'rounded' as well

and obviously you have rounded drums as well

I see now Lianne's reference confirms my point of view, not any of the 'crowned' options is rounded from side to side

12:32 May 31, 2012 

from a *linguistic* perspective, I prefer 'rounded' to 'bulged'

'bulged' sounds to me 'overstated', 'macho' and 'pathologic' :-)

'rounded' sounds to me 'balanced', 'within limits', 'curved' and 'tender' :-)

'crowned' sounds to me unlikely as well, how can you reconcile 'crowned' with 'gebolleerd, gebombeerd' ??

your reference, Michael: 'tapers' is not necessarily the same as 'rounded' and your first reference doesn't prove anything, at least I don't see it

but as I said, this is from a linguistic point of view

12:24 May 31, 2012 

11:29 May 31, 2012 

I am not convinced that crowned is correct as a crown is normally at the end, whihc is not the case here. I think the ref as provided by copheoske is not reliable, but I can be convinced if further refs can be provided.

11:25 May 31, 2012 

Thanks for the reference Johan!
It seems then that 'rounded', 'crowned', and 'bulged' are in fact all 3 used to refer to these drums.

11:19 May 31, 2012 

as opposed to concave

11:17 May 31, 2012 

I cannot provide you with more information from my client due to confidentiality requirements on their part, but here is another reference: (on page 34)
http://eriks.nl/documentatie/aandrijftechniek/v-snaren-en-ta...

11:08 May 31, 2012 

'rounded', as suggested by Johan seems like it might also be correct, but can someone provide me with a reference where it is used in the meaning of 'Trommels, die in het midden een grotere diameter hebben dan aan de buitenzijde'

11:05 May 31, 2012 

His reference states:

• 'crowned pulleys consist of a drive pulley with a center diameter that is slightly longer than those of the end. The diameter difference causes the belt to correct itself by constantly moving back on its track as soon as it tends to drift away.

(http://ezinearticles.com/?Crown-Conveyor-Pulley---How-it-Wor... )

please see (also in my comment above):

• 'Trommels, die in het midden een grotere diameter hebben dan aan de buitenzijde, (wij noemen dit ‘gebombeerd’) hebben een goed centreringseffect.'

(http://narviflexmedia.be/rubber/Technical/Sturen van transpo... )
---------------------------
My context is the 'trommels' and/or 'rollen' (i.e. the drums/pulleys/rollers) in a conveyor belt. Not as Johan's answer refers to: the belts or trays.
---------------------------
copheoske's reference calls them 'crowned'. Mine calls them 'bulged'.

'gebolleerd' seems to be used synonymously with 'gebombeerd'

=>

(gebolleerd = gebombeerd) = (crowned = bulged)

19:22 May 30, 2012 

The 2nd entry for 'bomberen' in the GWIT (Groot Woordenboek Industrie & Techniek) gives the following two English terms: 'dome' + 'bulge'.

I chose 'bulged', and since I am dealing with various 'trommels' (retourtrommel, aandrijftrommel, stuurtrommel etc) arrived at 'bulged drum'.

For a very useful website explaining what a bulged drum is, see: http://www.imepel.com.br/en/produtos/#tambores

'Drums:
These are cylindrical elements with the basic purpose of directing, pull and/or to tension the conveyor belt. The drums may be classified in two major categories: Drive Drum: the drum is connected to the engine designed to transmit the necessary touch to the conveyor belt, and Free Drum: the drum rotates freely due to the traction from its contact with the belt.

We can classify the drums by its Geometric Form

a) **Bulged Drum** – when its external cylindrical surface is presented curved;'

19:20 May 30, 2012 

After a little Googling, I discovered that there is also such a things as 'bomberen' (and 'gebombeerd'), and I think this is the same things as my author's 'gebolleerd'.

See e.g.:

'10. BOMBEREN VAN DE TROMMELS

(...)

Trommels, die in het midden een grotere diameter hebben dan aan de buitenzijde, (wij noemen dit ‘gebombeerd’) hebben een goed centreringseffect.'

(http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&... )

16:12 May 30, 2012 

but of course if 'convex' is what this is about, then it may just as well be called 'rounded', which is closer to the word 'gebolleerd': 'rond gemaakt'

bolleren - rond maken, bolvormig maken, een bolvorm geven
bij uitbreiding: convex maken, concaaf maken, hol maken, bol maken

15:59 May 30, 2012 

see this discussion about 'gebolleerd', someone racked his brains on it before:

'convex' came to mind because of your description

https://groups.google.com/group/sci.lang.translation/tree/br...

oh, I see you already posted that one :-)