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dépasser avec le buste l’aplomb du sacrum
quille
Jan 8, 2013 14:20
11 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term

tertres

French to English Other Tourism & Travel les tertres de Chartres--steps leading to upper city
I was wondering whether there was an English term for this or should I leave the French word with an explanation in brackets?
Proposed translations (English)
5 tertres (medieval inclined path with or without steps)
4 +8 medieval steps (tertres)
4 +1 vennels
4 hillock or mound
3 +1 buttes, hills
4 rises
5 -1 mounds
References
"Hill of St. François"
Change log

Jan 8, 2013 14:35: Karen Henry changed "Field (write-in)" from "(none)" to "les tertres de Chartres--steps leading to upper city"

Discussion

Karen Henry (asker) Jan 8, 2013:
Hence the confusion! Thanks Gilla you don't need to explain yourself! I think your answer works very well, thanks.
Evans (X) Jan 8, 2013:
Sorry I didn't give any references in my answer. I am familiar with what are referred to in Chartres as "tertres". There are I think five of them, each named after a saint, and were steps built into the hillsides to link parts of the city in medieval times. The word means hill or mound, but in Chartres refers to the steps on that hill.
Karen Henry (asker) Jan 8, 2013:
@Gallagy No they're not middens--see Phillipas' reference in discussion. Thanks!
Evans (X) Jan 8, 2013:
Thanks, Karen. I think "medieval steps (tertres)" would work in this sentence. It tells the tourist what they are and what they are called without going into too much cumbersome explanation.
Karen Henry (asker) Jan 8, 2013:
@Gilla Vous vous promènerez dans les ruelles de ville pour admirer maisons à colombages, tertres, lavoirs et vieux ponts.
Karen Henry (asker) Jan 8, 2013:
Interesting history lesson for us all, thanks cc!
cc in nyc Jan 8, 2013:
GDT The GDT gives "midden" or "periglacial mound" – but I don't suggest either of them because I had to look 'em up myself.
http://www.gdt.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/ficheOqlf.aspx?Id_Fiche=17494...
http://www.gdt.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/ficheOqlf.aspx?Id_Fiche=84588...
Philippa Smith Jan 8, 2013:
I agree with Miranda. This site:
http://www.monnuage.fr/point-d-interet/tertres-a100442
shows photos of the different Chartres tertres and a concise explanation of what they are:
"Il existe plusieurs tertres à Chartres. celui de Saint-Eman, Saint-André, Saint François, St Nicolas, de la Poissonnerie, ou encore le Tertre du "pied plat" !
Leur nom vient du Moyen Age, ils permettaient aux habitants d'atteindre la Haute ville depuis la Basse Ville.
Leur taille varie, de quelques marches pour le plus petit "du pied plat" à 150 env. pour le tertre St Nicolas.
Ces tertres sont ainsi une marque du passé. "
It being an historical term, I'd say keep the French and add a few words in brackets to explain (not sure about "vennels" as they can be flat alleyways etc. whereas these "tertres" are all going upwards).
kashew Jan 8, 2013:
Going back to Latin tertre comes from terminus au sens de borne. It depends whether you want to translate what they look like or what they were known as: vennels or limits.
I take the point about vennels being between walls.
Karen Henry (asker) Jan 8, 2013:
Yes I'm inclined to agree with you. Vennels are between two buildings as well, whereas some 'tertres' seem to be more in open spaces (but not all the time). Thanks Miranda.
Miranda Joubioux (X) Jan 8, 2013:
I must admit that I would be inclined to leave the French, since Google images shows that there are wall plates showing their names. However, nothing is to prevent you from adding vennels or just plain steps to upper city in brackets.
Karen Henry (asker) Jan 8, 2013:
More context Les tertres de Chartres--the steps leading to the upper city

Proposed translations

11 hrs
Selected

tertres (medieval inclined path with or without steps)

Tertre doit absolument être gardé tel quel.

Il s'agit d'un terme local (chartrain) pour désigner ces endroits :
"Chartres s'est développée sur un site défensif juste au dessus de la vallée de l'Eure, là où elle se trouve la plus encaissée. Ainsi se sont créées une ville haute et une ville basse reliées par des tertres (en langage chartrain, une montée permettant d'accéder rapidement de la basse ville à la haute ville)."
http://www.chartres.fr/decouvrir/histoire-et-patrimoine/patr...

La où je ne suis pas d'accord avec Gilla Evans c'est que les tertres ne sont pas forcement des escaliers :
"Des tertres, nom donné à ces dénivellations pourvues ou non d'escalier et datant du Moyen-Age, permettent de relier la ville haute à la ville basse et les berges de l'Eure."
http://www.voyages.net/fr/membre/Nico/carnet/une-journee-cha...

Le Tertre de la Poissonnerie par exemple n'a pas d'escaliers mais une pente
http://www.chartres.fr/decouvrir/histoire-et-patrimoine/patr...

Je ferai une note de bas de page expliquant de quoi il s'agit : a medieval inclined path, with or without steps.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Merci pour cette précision!"
5 mins

hillock or mound

It depends on the context but this is the direct translation
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+1
19 mins

vennels

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vennel

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Note added at 20 minutes (2013-01-08 14:40:23 GMT)
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http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venelle_(voie)
Peer comment(s):
agree Miranda Joubioux (X) : Good idea, although not the literal translation of tertres
12 mins
Thanks
neutral cc in nyc : not sure this would work as a gloss (which I think should be used here)
24 mins
neutral Sheila Wilson : I imagine the majority of non-francophone tourists won't have a clue what that means
1 hr
Indeed - unless they are Scottish!
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+8
40 mins

medieval steps (tertres)

I would be inclined to give an explanation and add the name tertre if it is a tourist text, to avoid confusion.

It would be useful to have the sentence in which it they are mentioned though, for us to give you a useful suggestion.
Note from asker:
Hello Gina, thanks for you input, I've selected Elsa answer since she is right in adding that there are not always steps (which I didn't know either!)
Peer comment(s):
agree Philippa Smith : nice solution Gilla!
6 mins
thanks, Philippa!
agree kashew : I was about to suggest stairway/case
8 mins
thanks, John! I think stairways would work too. Staircases to me suggests indoor stairs.
agree Miranda Joubioux (X) : Yes, but I'd still opt for keeping the French and putting the translation in brackets.
46 mins
Thanks, Miranda. That would be a valid option. Either way I think the word needs to be kept.
agree John Holland
54 mins
thanks, John
agree Carol Gullidge : with Miranda, putting tertres in italics or within quotes, and then glossing, e.g.: "tertres" -- as the medieval steps are known -- ...
1 hr
thanks, Carol
agree Yvonne Gallagher : with Miranda
1 hr
thanks gallagy
agree GILLES MEUNIER
3 hrs
thanks, Gilou
agree cc in nyc
6 hrs
thanks cc
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+1
5 mins

buttes, hills

more context please!

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=45898

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Note added at 45 mins (2013-01-08 15:05:58 GMT)
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with more context I agree with Miranda (leave "TERTRES" with explanation in brackets) .

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Note added at 55 mins (2013-01-08 15:15:25 GMT)
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and with even more context maybe they are MIDDENS (basically archaeological refuse heaps) as suggested by CC's reference.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/midden

since you already have the ruelles or alleys in your sentence
Peer comment(s):
agree cc in nyc
38 mins
thanks CC!
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1 hr

rises

although it might be a little too academic for tourists :)

TERTRE
A. − Petite éminence de terre, souvent à sommet plat, et isolée. Synon. butte, monticule.
TLF

TERTRE Obs.
Also terter.
[a. F. tertre a hillock (Roland 11th c.).]
A little hill; a rising ground; an eminence.
1481 ― Godeffroy cxxii. 185 The barons acorded that they wold close this litil terter and waye.
OED

RISE
II. 9.II.9 a.II.9.a A piece of rising ground; a hill.
11. a.II.11.a The vertical height of a step, an arch, an inclined surface or object, etc., measured from the base or springing-line to the highest point.
OED


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-1
1 day 4 hrs

mounds

Imho
Peer comment(s):
disagree Kim Metzger : http://riel.weebly.com/1/post/2012/12/a-tale-of-two-cathedra... See second paragraph.
7 mins
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Reference comments

40 mins
Reference:

"Hill of St. François"

That's what the Wikipedia calls the picture entitled "Tertre Saint-François" when it appears on the English version of the page.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartres#.C3.89difices_civils
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chartres#Gallery
Peer comments on this reference comment:
neutral Miranda Joubioux (X) : Wikipedia, much as I really love it is not conclusive, since it's probably a translation and not all their translations are good. It needs backup references.
49 mins
Oh, I agree! That's one reason why I didn't post an answer or as a comment to an answer, and it's why I put quotation marks around the title. If nothing else, the links do show one picture of the tertres.
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