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usine à gaz

English translation: convoluted mess; impenetrable jungle

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:usine à gaz
English translation:convoluted mess; impenetrable jungle
Entered by: ormiston

17:31 Oct 28, 2015
French to English translations [PRO]
Marketing - Marketing / Market Research / feedback from survey by fast food chain
French term or phrase: usine à gaz
C'est une usine à gaz.

This is how a restaurant manager describes the parent company. He is obviously critical of its complexity. I wonder if someone can come up with an equivalent term...(no joy from the glossary).
ormiston
Local time: 13:03
convoluted mess
Explanation:
A suggestion.

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Note added at 17 hrs (2015-10-29 11:09:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

According to Google:
"convoluted
ˌkɒnvəˈl(j)uːtɪd/
adjective ...
1. (especially of an argument, story, or sentence) extremely complex and difficult to follow.
"the film is let down by a convoluted plot in which nothing really happens"
synonyms: complicated, complex, involved, intricate, elaborate, impenetrable, serpentine, labyrinthine, tortuous, tangled, Byzantine, Daedalian, Gordian; More
confused, confusing, bewildering, baffling, puzzling, perplexing;
informalfiddly, plotty;
rareinvolute
"an extraordinarily convoluted narrative"
antonyms: simple, straightforward
2. technical
intricately folded, twisted, or coiled.
"walnuts come in hard and convoluted shells"
... late 18th century: past participle of convolute, from Latin convolutus, past participle of convolvere ‘roll together, intertwine’ (see convolve)."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2015-10-29 11:17:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

www.yourinsurance.co.uk/blog/.../can-you-be-a-generic-busin...
Even a small company can become a convoluted mess by the time it starts collating more diverse roles into individual people.

www.independent.co.uk/.../what-a-fine-mess-blairs-got-himse...
Why has the British government got into such a convoluted mess? Its equivocations would be more credible if Blair had not adopted such a ...

www.readytogo.net › Forums › Sunderland Message Boards › SMB
This is evident, however I fail to understand why anyone would choose the convoluted mess that is Android over the intuitive and superior iOS.

www.adventurecreator.org/forum/.../gamepad-as-mouse-cursor-...
... feel free to send me packing. My project is becoming a bit of a convoluted mess of plugins and assets, and I'm trying to keep them all in order.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2015-10-29 11:47:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Not necessarily a mess, but not good either unless it's deliberately convoluted to hide something:

www.wsj.com/articles/SB1183930551965602569 Jul 2007 - PARIS
Talks to streamline the convoluted management structure at European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co. have the potential to ease ...

https://books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=0994846207
Colleen Cross - 2015 - ‎Fiction
Kat traced her finger along one axis of the spider web of companies in ... due to his convoluted ownership structure, but on paper it was as clear as day. He owned Regal Gold Mines through Westside Investments. He couldn't hide it any longer.
Selected response from:

B D Finch
France
Local time: 13:03
Grading comment
I used convoluted, with your host of cited examples proving it hit the spot. I also liked Sheila's suggestion and Nikki's spot on définition. Seems a few translators have learnt a new expression!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +4convoluted mess
B D Finch
4 +2impenetrable jungle
Sheila Wilson
3Labyrinthine system
Chakib Roula
3bureaucracy gone mad
polyglot45
3neither use nor ornament ; to get nowhere fast
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
3a case of Parkinson's Law gone out of control
Daryo
3a proper maze
Daryo
2white elephant
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Summary of reference entries provided
I like this short article on the expression
Nikki Scott-Despaigne

Discussion entries: 6





  

Answers


12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Labyrinthine system


Explanation:
Suggestion

Chakib Roula
Algeria
Local time: 12:03
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 4
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
bureaucracy gone mad


Explanation:
bureaucracy run riot

polyglot45
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 44
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
white elephant


Explanation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_elephant

Probably rather more approrpiate for hare-brain projects ad/or expensive projects that are just a waste of time.




Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 13:03
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 19
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
neither use nor ornament ; to get nowhere fast


Explanation:
Another expression sometimes used to describe a set-up which makes a lot of noise but achieves nothing.

In conext, you might even be able to say : "is getting us nowhere fast."

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 13:03
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 19
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
a case of Parkinson's Law gone out of control


Explanation:
..

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2015-10-29 03:51:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

large companies do tend to generate internal bureaucracy than can be as nightmarish as the state bureaucray

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:03
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 16
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16 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
impenetrable jungle


Explanation:
https://www.google.es/url?q=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/scien...

This very first result from a Google search seems highly relevant.

Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 12:03
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 28

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jennifer White: yes, it does seem relevant. Like this one./ No, I meant I like it!!
52 mins
  -> Thanks Jennifer. Did you mean to add a link? / :)
agree  Carol Gullidge: I like this if you're not wishing to sound TOO derogatory about one's parent company. This just says it all without going OTT. Also fits very well with Nikki's Reference comment
1 hr
  -> Thanks Carol
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17 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
a proper maze


Explanation:
their (parent company's) system is a proper maze

only stressing the complexity of their procedures, without giving too much negative connotations.


Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:03
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 16
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +4
convoluted mess


Explanation:
A suggestion.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2015-10-29 11:09:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

According to Google:
"convoluted
ˌkɒnvəˈl(j)uːtɪd/
adjective ...
1. (especially of an argument, story, or sentence) extremely complex and difficult to follow.
"the film is let down by a convoluted plot in which nothing really happens"
synonyms: complicated, complex, involved, intricate, elaborate, impenetrable, serpentine, labyrinthine, tortuous, tangled, Byzantine, Daedalian, Gordian; More
confused, confusing, bewildering, baffling, puzzling, perplexing;
informalfiddly, plotty;
rareinvolute
"an extraordinarily convoluted narrative"
antonyms: simple, straightforward
2. technical
intricately folded, twisted, or coiled.
"walnuts come in hard and convoluted shells"
... late 18th century: past participle of convolute, from Latin convolutus, past participle of convolvere ‘roll together, intertwine’ (see convolve)."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2015-10-29 11:17:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

www.yourinsurance.co.uk/blog/.../can-you-be-a-generic-busin...
Even a small company can become a convoluted mess by the time it starts collating more diverse roles into individual people.

www.independent.co.uk/.../what-a-fine-mess-blairs-got-himse...
Why has the British government got into such a convoluted mess? Its equivocations would be more credible if Blair had not adopted such a ...

www.readytogo.net › Forums › Sunderland Message Boards › SMB
This is evident, however I fail to understand why anyone would choose the convoluted mess that is Android over the intuitive and superior iOS.

www.adventurecreator.org/forum/.../gamepad-as-mouse-cursor-...
... feel free to send me packing. My project is becoming a bit of a convoluted mess of plugins and assets, and I'm trying to keep them all in order.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2015-10-29 11:47:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Not necessarily a mess, but not good either unless it's deliberately convoluted to hide something:

www.wsj.com/articles/SB1183930551965602569 Jul 2007 - PARIS
Talks to streamline the convoluted management structure at European Aeronautic Defence & Space Co. have the potential to ease ...

https://books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=0994846207
Colleen Cross - 2015 - ‎Fiction
Kat traced her finger along one axis of the spider web of companies in ... due to his convoluted ownership structure, but on paper it was as clear as day. He owned Regal Gold Mines through Westside Investments. He couldn't hide it any longer.

B D Finch
France
Local time: 13:03
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 36
Grading comment
I used convoluted, with your host of cited examples proving it hit the spot. I also liked Sheila's suggestion and Nikki's spot on définition. Seems a few translators have learnt a new expression!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Alain Bolduc: Here's some context for the expression: http://www.linternaute.com/expression/langue-francaise/14247...
23 mins
  -> Thanks Alain
agree  Daryo: It's not quite that - the idea is more of some exaggerated complexity - but I like it! Attracts attention for sure, so it's fit for purpose.
2 hrs
  -> Thanks Daryo. See note added above, which supports "exaggerated complexity" as a meaning for "convoluted".
agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: I didn't know this epxression but it is instantly understandable and a good match for the ST meaning. ("Convoluted" perfectly describes complexity with "mess").
5 hrs
  -> Thanks Nikki. 162,000 ghits for "convoluted mess", including 24,400 UK ones.
agree  Jeffrey Henson: Like it !
1 day 2 hrs
  -> Thanks Jeff.
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Reference comments


4 hrs peer agreement (net): +4
Reference: I like this short article on the expression

Reference information:
A bit of history and examples of current usage.

http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/le-scan/decryptages/2015/07...

pressions favorites des politiques : «Usine à gaz»
HOME LE SCAN LES DÉCRYPTAGES
Par Marc de Boni Mis à jour le 21/07/2015 à 10:21 Publié le 21/07/2015 à 06:00
Vue d'une usine à gaz - une vraie - à Reichstett, en Alsace.
LE SCAN POLITIQUE - A la faveur de l'été, Le Scan politique vous propose de décrypter une expression récurrente dans le discours des politiques. Aujourd'hui, la tentaculaire «usine à gaz».

Qu'est-ce qui peut aussi bien désigner la «démocratie participative» initiée par Ségolène Royal en amont de la présidentielle de 2007 , la réforme fiscale voulue par Michel Sapin, l'organigramme des Républicains, le programme sécuritaire de Chirac en 2002 ou encore l'actuelle réforme territoriale ? L'expression «usine à gaz». Très prisée depuis longtemps par les politiques de tous bords, cette formule métaphorique caractérise aujourd'hui des dispositifs incompréhensibles pour le commun des mortels, dont la mise en oeuvre a pour seul mérite de complexifier un sujet qui l'est déjà suffisamment...
Cette expression trouve son origine à l'aube de la révolution industrielle du début du XIXème siècle. Les grandes capitales d'Europe occidentales se dotent alors progressivement de l'éclairage au gaz pour améliorer la salubrité et la sécurité urbaine. À Paris et Londres notamment se développent de vastes complexes industriels à la tuyauterie massive et alambiquée. Leur fonctionnement complexe et souvent dangereux leur valent une fort mauvaise réputation. Si l'éclairage au gaz est tombé en désuétude au profit de l'électricité dès les années 1880, l'image forte de ces complexes industriels tentaculaires restera gravée dans la mémoire collective. Au point de devenir une expression péjorative courante.
Un exemple? Le Grand Paris

En politique, la notion d'«usine à gaz» est employée pour dénigrer un projet jugé trop cher, trop complexe, et dont le mode de fonctionnement paraît inaccessible aux non-initiés. Un projet politique affublé de ce qualificatif répond souvent aux notions également dénoncées par le terme «bureaucratique». L'expression a d'ailleurs rencontré un franc succès pour désigner les appareils d'État aux effectifs pléthoriques et aux objectifs parfois obscurs.
Presque qu'aucun politique n'a résisté à l'attrait de cette expression pour dénigrer un projet adverse. Un exemple en vidéo: en janvier 2008, à l'occasion de la première conférence de presse présidentielle du quinquennat de Nicolas Sarkozy. Manuel Valls, alors député d'opposition, commente les dispositifs de défiscalisation des heures supplémentaires fraîchement mis en place par le gouvernement...



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Note added at 4 hrs (2015-10-28 22:05:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Just in case it inspires someone.

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 19

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  philgoddard: That's very helpful, thanks.
7 hrs
agree  Victoria Britten: Thanks!
8 hrs
agree  mchd: très bonne idée de recherche !
11 hrs
agree  Jeffrey Henson: Thanks for sharing this Nikki !
23 hrs
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