للتيار المدني

English translation: secular

13:20 May 19, 2016
Arabic to English translations [PRO]
Journalism
Arabic term or phrase: للتيار المدني
I'm translating a piece about being a journalist in Syria. The author describes various factions operating in opposition areas and says some of them belong to the للتيار المدني I'm struggling to think of a good translation for this.
Susan Copeland
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:29
English translation:secular
Explanation:
Drop the word 'current' as it doesn't translate to English well. With more context, we could fit this in better, but you can probably just use the bare adjective 'secular' depending on the structure.

I'm sure the original article is trying to contrast Islamist vs. secular groups, and the only issue is that علماني is a bit of a dirty word in Arabic, so people tend to say مدني and mean what Americans mean when they say 'secular'. Using 'civil' is likely to get you tripped up with neighboring and erroneous concepts like 'civilian', etc.

Here's the Economist writing about Syria; note that 'secular' is the word they use:

"Rebel groups that echo more moderate and secular attitudes, for which Syria used to be praised, are smaller and less powerful." http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/2157805...
Selected response from:

Tim Friese
United States
Local time: 16:29
Grading comment
Thanks, Tim. This (drop the current) and your comments elsewhere most accord with what I was thinking. Yes, I'm sure the author was not referring to one known movement but rather to various civil and secular groups, some of whom are in direct conflict with each other. I'm not going to enter it into the glossary because I'm aware that in other countries there is such a thing called "the civil current" but not in this context.
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +3civil movement
Oz Hamdoun (X)
5 +1civil stream
Awad Balaish
4secular
Tim Friese
4the civil current
Muhammad Said
2The liberals
Linda Al-Bairmani


Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
secular


Explanation:
Drop the word 'current' as it doesn't translate to English well. With more context, we could fit this in better, but you can probably just use the bare adjective 'secular' depending on the structure.

I'm sure the original article is trying to contrast Islamist vs. secular groups, and the only issue is that علماني is a bit of a dirty word in Arabic, so people tend to say مدني and mean what Americans mean when they say 'secular'. Using 'civil' is likely to get you tripped up with neighboring and erroneous concepts like 'civilian', etc.

Here's the Economist writing about Syria; note that 'secular' is the word they use:

"Rebel groups that echo more moderate and secular attitudes, for which Syria used to be praised, are smaller and less powerful." http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/2157805...

Tim Friese
United States
Local time: 16:29
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 3
Grading comment
Thanks, Tim. This (drop the current) and your comments elsewhere most accord with what I was thinking. Yes, I'm sure the author was not referring to one known movement but rather to various civil and secular groups, some of whom are in direct conflict with each other. I'm not going to enter it into the glossary because I'm aware that in other countries there is such a thing called "the civil current" but not in this context.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Muhammad Said: Secular means علماني, which is not totally correct according to what is said above. Also, the term 'civil current' is accurate and English by the way. Plz check http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/Archive/2012/1116/op1.htm. الأهرام ويكلي جريدة ناطقة بالإنجليزية
3 mins
  ->  .يا أخي المصدر الذي تفضلت به مقالة من جريدة مصرية تُرجمت حرفيا من العربية إلى الإنكليزي

neutral  Oz Hamdoun (X): the same argument applies on your answer. you have guessed and at the same time you have a problem with my guess. i am aware of both terms and mine is not literal.Yes, i would agree with you if ( علماني) and (مدني) are the same. Look it up
8 mins
  -> Not a guess, this is how this term is regularly used. The source is almost certainly contrasting Islamist vs. secular, which is how these concepts are termed in English. I believe this is the best translation of the meanings and not the words.

agree  Linda Al-Bairmani: Yes, I'd go for secular too
9 mins

disagree  Chakib Roula: Secular means علماني. In the arabic culture, "civil" means non-military rule.
10 mins
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20 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
The liberals


Explanation:
Just a guess, it's the opposite of religious movements or parties

Linda Al-Bairmani
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 22:29
Native speaker of: Arabic
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2 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
the civil current


Explanation:
the civil current

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Note added at 21 mins (2016-05-19 13:42:02 GMT)
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The term is common. Please check
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/Archive/2012/1116/op1.htm

Muhammad Said
Egypt
Local time: 23:29
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: It may be common but it sounds odd in English and is not quite right in this Syrian context.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Chakib Roula: Very difficult to say so without context
4 mins
  -> It is not difficult and could be guessed. The asker mentions paralinguistic context which could be helpful in guessing.
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9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +3
civil movement


Explanation:
.

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Note added at 12 mins (2016-05-19 13:33:22 GMT)
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civil society movement

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 mins (2016-05-19 13:34:01 GMT)
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this is the accurate political term. look it up.

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Note added at 35 mins (2016-05-19 13:56:15 GMT)
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تيار المجتمع المدني Civil Society Movement
Please check this out:
https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/تيار_المجتمع_المدني

Oz Hamdoun (X)
United States
Local time: 17:29
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic, Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks, Oz and everyone else. It did actually say "the civilian and secular current" so that eliminates that debate. I thought of "movement" but that seemed to imply there was just one thing called The Civilian and Secular Movement" which isn't the case, but I think this may have to do.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tim Friese: This translation makes it seem that there is one 'movement', but the Arabic source probably means all secular groups, regardless of whether they are in the same movement. And in any case, 'secular' is a much better, less literal translation.
3 mins

agree  Randa Farhat: In Lebanon and Syria this is commonly known as "civil society movements", "civil society campaigns", "civil society activism/activists". Keep it in small letters and in plural save for activism. التيار المدني = الحراك المدني civil society activism
7 hrs
  -> Thanks Farhat for the explanation

agree  Arabic & More: Agree that civil society movement is commonly used. This seems like the best choice to me.
7 hrs
  -> Thanks Amel,

agree  Sayed Fathy
2 days 19 hrs
  -> شكرآ اخي الكريم؛:)
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
civil stream


Explanation:
0000000000000

Awad Balaish
Saudi Arabia
Local time: 00:29
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Liliane Hatem: January | 2016 | Mosul Eye https://mosuleye.wordpress.com/2016/01/ Rukimini Callimalchi, the foreign correspondent for the New York Times, .... which represents the civil stream, the provincial stream has taken over it, and this .
2 hrs
  -> thanks Lilian
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