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Makhzen/Maghzen

English translation: In Morocco, refers to the sultan's government

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Arabic term or phrase:Makhzen or Maghzen
English translation:In Morocco, refers to the sultan's government
Entered by: Tamara Salvio
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18:22 Mar 14, 2001
Arabic to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents
Arabic term or phrase: Makhzen/Maghzen
I am hoping one of our esteemed Arabic/French/English colleagues is out there - the context is French which I am translating into English, but the meaning of this word will influence the way I construct the phrase as I will probably need to add a bit of detail for the English reader:

"Lorsque parut lescadre, Mr. Wilischire flairant le danger, chercha s'embarquer sur un navire anglais qui mouillait dans la rade. Par malheur, il tait trop li au Maghzen par les dettes contractes envers la douane linstar des autres ngociants dailleurs. Le gouvernement de la ville ne le laissa pas partir."

It appears later in the document (with no better contextual clues other than the customs relationship) as Makhzen.

Thank you
Tamara Salvio
United States
Local time: 01:16
Part 2: Makhzen
Explanation:
In my first posting, I only addressed "Maghzen." That is the word for which you provided some context.

"Makhzen," it turns out, is just as fascinating. Let us begin with two interesting nuggets, then I will make a few comments:

"makhzen ou maghzen n. masc. (mot arabe pour «trésor».).

1. En Algérie, corps de cavaliers de quelques tribus, autrefois tenus à l'égard des beys au service militaire, moyennant certains privilèges.

2. Au Maroc, sous le protectorat français, gouvernement du sultan. On écrit aussi maghzen.

• adj. Territoires makhzen : territoires qui, sous le protectorat français, dépendaient de l'ةtat marocain"

© 2001 Hachette Multimédia / Hachette Livre

http://perl.club-internet.fr/cgi-bin/ehmel/ehmel_search.pl?m...

Here is the other nugget:

"The Makhzen is the name given in Morocco to the central administration together with the Sultan's governmental suite."

http://www.grey-net.com/fotw/flags/ma-es.html


Now, what’s a translator to do with this information sprawl?

The Arabic root word that pops up as soon as one mentions "Makhzen" is a red herring in this case. The words "Maghzen" and "Makhzen" used here are proper nouns, and I think they should be treated as such. Of course, ascertaining what they specifically referred to in that historical context is an indispensable exercise, but beyond that, a "translation" would distort the presentation.

Fuad
Selected response from:

Fuad Yahya
Grading comment
Thanks to both Fuad and Gus for your postings which were very informative. I did a Google search last night and found, like both of you, that there is a wealth of information on this subject! Fuad's two postings reinforced the direction I had decided to take. I have left the proper noun in the translation and added a parenthesis with a simple clarification (the sultan's government).
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
naPart 2: MakhzenFuad Yahya
na(Formerly) Finance Department
Ghassan Ghosn
naThe MaghzenFuad Yahya


  

Answers


2 hrs
The Maghzen


Explanation:
My first, almost instinctive, reaction was to think that "Maghzen" was an earlier form of the word "magasin." What threw me off was the mysterious mention in your posting of "Makhzen," the sound of which is even closer to the Arabic "makhazin" ("storehouses") which is the ultimate origin of the word "magazine."

I am glad I did not persist too long in that folly. The upper case initial M and the preceding "au" pointed me in another direction, which I think is more fruitful. Through a Google search, I found some interesting material on the Maghzen tribes. A good introduction to the topic can be found in the following page:

http://www.djezaweb.com/Lectures/Notes_de_lecture/notes_de_l...

Here is a quote from that page:

"Il comprend déjà les enjeux de cette conquête, l'état de " divisions intestines… soigneusement entretenu par les Turcs, au profit de leur domination. " Il met l'accent sur les deux grands partis : le parti aristocratique des tribus Maghzen au service des Turcs et le parti théocratique, prétendant descendre du Prophète et dont le chef n'était autre que le grand Abd-el-Kader. Les deux partis se livraient une lutte implacable arbitrée par la France."

The discussion is more extensive, and my Google search yielded many other pages full of promising material. Just type "Maghzen" and follow the leads to where you think the information is relevant to the material you are translating. You will be amazed.

As to “Makhzen,” I would have to see more context, but I hope that this bit can help you move in the right direction.

Fuad




    Google search
Fuad Yahya
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 2542

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
AhmedAMS
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6 hrs
(Formerly) Finance Department


Explanation:
The word 'makhzan (pl. makhaazin) has many meanings: storeroom, storehouse; depository; stockroom, storage room; depot, magazine, warehouse, etc.

al-makhzan, the Makhzan, the Moroccan government (formerly: governmental finance department: Mor.)

If you check the English word 'magazine', you'll see that it's from Arabic makhaazin, storehouses.

Hope this is of some help.


    Hans Wehr's A Dictionary of Modern Written Arabic & Merriam-webster's Collegiate Dictionary.
Ghassan Ghosn
Local time: 11:16
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic
PRO pts in pair: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
AhmedAMS
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14 hrs
Part 2: Makhzen


Explanation:
In my first posting, I only addressed "Maghzen." That is the word for which you provided some context.

"Makhzen," it turns out, is just as fascinating. Let us begin with two interesting nuggets, then I will make a few comments:

"makhzen ou maghzen n. masc. (mot arabe pour «trésor».).

1. En Algérie, corps de cavaliers de quelques tribus, autrefois tenus à l'égard des beys au service militaire, moyennant certains privilèges.

2. Au Maroc, sous le protectorat français, gouvernement du sultan. On écrit aussi maghzen.

• adj. Territoires makhzen : territoires qui, sous le protectorat français, dépendaient de l'ةtat marocain"

© 2001 Hachette Multimédia / Hachette Livre

http://perl.club-internet.fr/cgi-bin/ehmel/ehmel_search.pl?m...

Here is the other nugget:

"The Makhzen is the name given in Morocco to the central administration together with the Sultan's governmental suite."

http://www.grey-net.com/fotw/flags/ma-es.html


Now, what’s a translator to do with this information sprawl?

The Arabic root word that pops up as soon as one mentions "Makhzen" is a red herring in this case. The words "Maghzen" and "Makhzen" used here are proper nouns, and I think they should be treated as such. Of course, ascertaining what they specifically referred to in that historical context is an indispensable exercise, but beyond that, a "translation" would distort the presentation.

Fuad



    See above
Fuad Yahya
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 2542
Grading comment
Thanks to both Fuad and Gus for your postings which were very informative. I did a Google search last night and found, like both of you, that there is a wealth of information on this subject! Fuad's two postings reinforced the direction I had decided to take. I have left the proper noun in the translation and added a parenthesis with a simple clarification (the sultan's government).

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
AhmedAMS
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




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