opća gimnazija

English translation: general grammar school/high school

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

Croatian term or phrase:	opća gimnazija
English translation:	general grammar school/high school
Entered by:	eleonora_r

21:47 Jul 10, 2010

Croatian to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Education / Pedagogy

Croatian term or phrase: opća gimnazija

za razliku od matematičke, klasične i jezične

eleonora_r KudoZ activity Questions: 448 (none open) (12 closed without grading) Answers: 350
Local time: 06:32

general-education high school

Explanation:
Ako prevodite na američki engleski, ovo je uobičajeni pojam. Da se izbjegnu razlike US English vs. UK English, može se koristiti i general-education secondary school. Gymnasium ne bih upotrebljavao jer je primarno značenje te riječi "športska dvorana".

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Note added at 13 hrs (2010-07-11 10:51:32 GMT)
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Gymnasium u značenju srednja škola nije "native English". Susreće se većinom u prijevodu s njemačkih stranica na engleski. Gymnasium izvorne govornike američkog i britanskog engleskog navodi na značenje "gym" i sve u tom smislu. Uostalom, da nekome Amerikancu kažete "I'm going to general gymnasium", pogledao bi vas u čudu i vjerojatno se nasmijao.

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Note added at 17 hrs (2010-07-11 15:28:17 GMT)
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Kada prevodimo na engleski ili bilo koji drugi strani jezik, treba prevoditi u duhu jezika i imati na umu da tamo već postoje pojmovi koji se koriste za određene institucije. U Americi i Velikoj Britaniji gymnasium sigurno nije gimnazija nego samo športska dvorana. Za gimnaziju Amerikanci koriste high school, a Britanci grammar school. Nije se dobro povoditi za stranicama na internetu gdje sve vrvi kojekakvim nebuloznim prijevodima na upitan engleski.

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Note added at 17 hrs (2010-07-11 15:41:54 GMT)
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Evo definicije iz Merriam-Webster's Online:

Main Entry: gym·na·si·um
Pronunciation: \sense 1 jim-ˈnā-zē-əm, -zhəm; sense 2 usually gim-ˈnä-zē-əm\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural gym·na·si·ums or -na·sia\-ˈnā-zē-ə, -ˈnā-zhə; -ˈnä-zē-ə\
Etymology: Latin, exercise ground, school, from Greek gymnasion, from gymnazein to exercise naked, from gymnos naked — more at naked
Date: 1598

1 a : a large room used for various indoor sports (as basketball or boxing) and usually equipped with gymnastic apparatus b : a building (as on a college campus) containing space and equipment for various indoor sports activities and usually including spectator accommodations, locker and shower rooms, offices, classrooms, and a swimming pool
2 [German, from Latin, school] : a European secondary school that prepares students for the university

Moji američki kolege mi kažu da se značenje 2 može upotrebljavati samo za njemačke srednje škole takve vrste, za sve ostale koristi se high school.

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Note added at 1 day7 hrs (2010-07-12 05:10:51 GMT)
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Aha, budući da se radi o prijevodu za UK, onda svakako grammar school. Ja bih to preveo kao general grammar school.

Selected response from:

dkalinic
Local time: 06:32

Grading comment

Hvala svima na prijedlozima, odlučila sam se za "general grammar school"
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +2

general-education high school

dkalinic

4 +2

high school

Lirka

Academic Secondary(Grammar School) with A Levels Sixth Form - UK

NadiaMP (X)

4 -1

general gymnasium

Natasa Stankovic

Discussion entries: 5

eleonora_r

ASKER

09:48 Jul 15, 2010

Budući da sam prevodila svjedodžbe sva četiri razreda gimnazije, očito je da osoba nije napustila školu sa 16 godina (na svjedodžbama je i datum rođenja i školske godine u kojima je završila pojedini razred). Ali moram napomenuti jedno: osoba koja završi četiri razreda gimnazije zapravo niti nema kvalifikaciju. Nakon završena četiri razreda mora polagati maturu (od ove školske godine državnu koja zapravo, po mome mišljenju, odgovara onome što se u UK naziva A level). Tek time je završila srednju školu (na Svjedožbi o državnoj maturi piše: Učenik je završio srednje obrazovanje), no realno, nema nikakvu konkretnu kvalifikaciju ukoliko ne nastavi školovanje na visokom učilištu.

NadiaMP (X)

09:37 Jul 15, 2010

Dodala bih samo jos ovo: morate biti svjesni da samo upotrebom termina "grammar school" mozete dovesti osobu kojoj to prevodite u vrlo neugodnu situaciju - naime u Engleskoj ce misliti da je ta osoba napustila skolu sa 16 godina i nema nikakve druge kvalifikacije polsije toga - jer to je Grammar School (a "general" ovdje ne znaci bas nista i nigdje se ne upotrebljava)

NadiaMP (X)

08:41 Jul 15, 2010

That's right that Grammar School in Uk is lower than High School (but there is no high school in UK though) - therefore you need to add "with A Levels Sixth Form" because having completed a grammar school (which is actually "academic secondary education" and is known as such) one would continue with the Sixth Form taking A (advanced) Level subjects and would sit the A Level exams. This is the only way how you can approach this problem I think - because the systems are so different. However, the notion Academic education and A levels would immediately indicate what kind of school "opca gimnazija' is. By the way, for Australia and New Zealand you can use the term Grammar School because they do exist and they ARE NOT lower rank than high schools - on contrary, they offer a range of academic subjects up to University entrance level while High schools usually have all other subjects as well, such as agriculture, horticulture, etc.

dkalinic

Not in the UK

15:38 Jul 13, 2010

Lirka, this may be so in the US but it certainly isn't in the UK. Since the translation's to be done for the UK, grammar school is the only equivalent. To emphasize the general education it gives, one could say "general grammar school". Putting "gimnazija" in parentheses in an official document is not an option.

Lirka

Austria

@asker

14:47 Jul 13, 2010

Grammar school would be misleading--it is lower in rank than high school. You can put 'gimnazija' in parentheses and translate as high school. Although it is NOT an English term, it is known to many educators in the USA/UK. So many would actually understand what you want to say.

Answers

15 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): -1

general gymnasium

Explanation:
- Croatia (4 years, starting at age 14/15 after 8 years in elementary school, five different educational tracks: opća gimnazija (general education), klasična gimnazija (focused on Latin and Ancient Greek), jezična gimnazija (focused on modern languages), prirodoslovna gimnazija (biology and chemistry) and prirodoslovno-matematička gimnazija (mathematics, physics and computer science), ends with Matura).
- Serbia (4 years, starting at age 14/15 after 8 years in elementary school. There are 2 types. One is general gymnasium (opšta gimnazija in Serbian) which offers broad education both in natural subjects and social studies. Other is just gymnasium in which you can choose on enrollment if you want to study science and mathematics (prirodno-matematicki smer in Serbian) or social studies (drustveni smer in Serbian).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnasium_(school)

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Note added at 1 hr (2010-07-10 23:43:17 GMT)
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ili „general-education gymnasium”

After graduating from Realschule, good students are allowed to attend a professional Gymnasium or a general-education Gymnasium. They can also attend a Berufskolleg or do an apprenticeship.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realschule

ili “gymnasium of general education”

Youth on 18/19 Additional training for special education Gymnasium of General Education in Secondary SchoolSecondary shool16/17 14/15 Basic shool10/11 Primary school6/7 Pere - School EducationThis school structure allows the same type of school choice schoolchildrens and profile in accordance with their skills and living conditions and better prepare for life.
http://indrekuleviciute.blogspot.com/2010/04/education-in-li...

Natasa Stankovic
Serbia
Local time: 06:32
Native speaker of:

Serbian
PRO pts in category: 8

8 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

general-education high school

dkalinic
Local time: 06:32
Native speaker of: Croatian
PRO pts in category: 4

Grading comment

Hvala svima na prijedlozima, odlučila sam se za "general grammar school"

Notes to answerer

Asker: Budući da je prijevod za UK, mislila sam staviti grammar school, zapravo je pitanje bilo za ovo "opća", a ne za gimnazija. Nikad gimnazija ne bih prevela kao "gymnasium".

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Natasa Djurovic: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/croatian_to_english/education_peda...

3 hrs

-> Hvala, Nataša.

neutral

Natasa Stankovic: Naravno da „gymnasium“ nije, kako kažete, "native English", ali mnogi Amerikanci bi vas u čudu gledali i ako kažete „I’m from Croatia“ (ne bi znali ni šta je to Croatia, a zatim da li je u Evropi, Aziji ili…), pa mislim da vam to i nije neki argument.

6 hrs

-> Kada prevodimo na engleski, ne prevodimo doslovno nego u duhu jezika i koristimo pojmove koji se koriste u ciljnoj državi. Dakle nikako gymnasium za gimnaziju u am. engleskom odn. brit. engleskom jer oni već imaju za to određene pojmove.

agree

bonafide1313: "Croatia" nije "native English" kao ni "gymnasium" u značenju gimnazije, tako da mislim da ti je argument u redu, iako je činjenica da se nešto obrazovaniji natives neće baš tako čuditi ni gimnaziji ni kroejši:))

7 hrs

-> Jadranka, činjenica jest da Engleze i Amerikance gymnasium navodi na značenje "gym" i ništa drugo. To što u nekom rječniku piše da je gymnasium middle school ne drži previše vodu.

neutral

Lirka: 'general-education' sounds very odd. Either just high-school or possibly 'regular high-school'//it is obvious that it doesn't sound odd to you, but it does to me. About the hyphen, you are right. But we also do not need it for the adjective :)

9 hrs

-> general-education doesn't sound odd. There are over 192.000.000 examples for it on the Net. High-school is adjective, high school noun. Every high school is regular, the emphasis is on the education it gives.

2 days 16 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

high school

Explanation:
No need for an adjective here.

I stand my ground :)

Lirka
Austria
Local time: 06:32
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 16

4 days confidence:

Academic Secondary(Grammar School) with A Levels Sixth Form - UK

Explanation:
Buduci se radi o prijevodu za UK, ovaj prijevod je jedini najblizi onome sto je u Hrvatskoj opca gimnazija. U Americi je to High School, a u New Zealand i Australija Grammar School (premda postoje High Schools ali Grammar School odmah daje na znanje da su predmeti vise akademski (jezici, znanosti, dok u High School imate i sve druge predmete za koje u Hrv. postoje strucne, tehmnicke i druge skole. Inace, pospuno se slazem s Davorom K. i svima drugima da se gimnazija NIKAKO ne moze prevesti kao Gymnasium - to je gym gdje se radi fiskultura i jedino se tako danas razumijeva u svim zemljama engleskog govornog podruca. Gymnasium se upotrebljava u Njemackoj (kao i Realschule) i potpuno je nesuvislo koristiti njemacke paralelne izraze, pogotovo u terminologiji vezanoj za obrazovanje jer su obrazovni sistemi toliko puno razliciti.

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Note added at 4 days (2010-07-15 08:54:40 GMT)
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Mislim da je cijela ova diskusija zapravo i poucna, jer nam pokazuje kako je vrlo riskatno koristiti termine i objasnjena sa wikipedie - moramo biti svjesni da wiki stvaraju uglavnom laici (ponekad i strucnjaci) otvoreno je svakome, prema tome puno je toga sto se mora uzeti s velikom rezervom. Pogotovo ne bismo smjeli brkati termine u obrazovanju iz anglo-saxonskog i germanskog govornog podrucja. Ovaj "gymnasium" je najbolji primjer onoga sto se ne bi smjelo raditi. slazem se s vecinom toga sto su Davor i ostali povodom toga napisali, premda cak i primjer web stranice koji je Davor dao (www.worldnetweb) zapravo uopce ne izjednacuje "gymnasium" i "middle school" (ako malo polje pogledate) nego ih stavlja jedno uz drugo (jer to nikako i nigdje nije isto) - a i taj site je kao i wikipedia prilicno neobavezujuci

Reference: http://www.euroeducation.net/prof/ukco.htm

NadiaMP (X)
Local time: 16:32
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

Croatian,

English

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English translation: general grammar school/high school

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