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Danish to English translations [PRO] Law/Patents - Law: Contract(s)
Danish term or phrase:afholdt
The sentence in question reads "[X skal friholde Y] for sådanne krav og alle i den forbindelse afholdte udgifter, herunder advokatomkostninger[.]"
The question before the KudoZ Court is: "incurred" or "paid"?
If the former, I can see the indemnified party possibly claiming coverage for expenses incurred internally, e.g., staff time spent responding to a third party claim, or expenses incurred but not yet paid. But if it's the latter, no way, José, only amounts actually paid will be reimbursed.
Anyone have personal experience with this question?
Gyldendals Juridisk: Afholde udgifterne - pay the expenses; afholde udgifterne til (el. forbundet med) - bear/cover/pay the costs of de med ... forbundne omkostninger/udgifter - the (el. all) costs/expenses incidental to ..., the cost of ... fx: de med nærværende kontrakts indgåelse og oprettelse forbundne omkostninger herunder udgifter til stempling og tinglysning betales af lejer [i lejekontrakt] - all costs incidental to the conclusion and execution of this Lease including stamp duties and registration fees shall be payable by the Lessee
Dansk-engelsk økonomisk ordbog: afholde (om udgifter) - pay, bear; (formelt) defray afholde udgifterne ved - pay for; pay/defray the expenses of have udgifter - incur expenses
"Afholdt" does mean "betalt", as others have already mentioned: http://ordnet.dk/ddo/ordbog?query=afholde . I'm not aware that it can also include something that may be due but not yet paid, but maybe it can in legal matters. Now, to complicate it, my Gyldendals legal EN-DA dictionary translates "incur" to "pådrage sig, lide, afholde" and "pay" to "betale, erlægge, berigtige, udrede, svare", so that doesn't exactly help us. That's as close as I can get.
"Incurred" in this instance means "inflicted on" or "borne". For example, the customer receives a copyright infringement claim from a third party. The customer has to immediately engage legal counsel to protect itself.
Now, that counsel might be in-house and on a regular salary, or it could be external, paid by the hour. If "afholdt" means "incurred" here, the customer could forward the external bills to the supplier for payment without first paying them. But if it means "paid", then the customer has to pay them first and seek reimbursement.
I can't help myself, I must comment...
13:18 Oct 8, 2015
Afholdt means that something has been paid for, i.e. you can produce an invoice and ask to have that reimbursed. As I understand it, 'incurred' means 'pådrage sig', i.e. you are responsible for creating an expense. That does not mean that you have paid for it and can produce an invoice. Or does it? I.e. unless an invoice can be produced for the hours e.g. a secretary has worked on doing research on the case, no expenses have been 'afholdt' in that connection, i.e. this cannot be reimbursed. (I am not a legal buff, this is just my understanding of the difference between 'incurred' and 'paid'.)
It makes a big difference. As a former attorney, insurance underwriter, broker and risk manager, I can attest to that. Whole shelves in legal libraries are devoted to cases involving such distinctions.
Afholde means pay but I can't see a problem with saying incurred as it really doesn't make any difference. You'd document these expenses by sending them a copy of the lawyer's bill, not a copy of your bank statement saying you've paid it.
Automatic update in 00:
3 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +3
Explanation: afholdt = en udgift, der er betalt.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 11 mins (2015-10-08 12:50:18 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
The question before the Kudoz court was: incurred or paid. :)
But I get your point, and respectfully withdraw from the discussion, leaving it to brighter legal heads. :)
564354352 (X) Denmark Local time: 12:03 Native speaker of: Danish PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: I know that's one meaning, but your response doesn't address my question.
Asker: I should probably add that Gyldendals shows "incurred" as a possibility, which gives rise to the question.
Asker: Many thanks for your extensive discussion entry. Based on that, I'm going with "paid". I think the inclusion of "incurred" by Gyldendals is a bit of a stretch, and it wasn't the first thing I thought of when I saw "afholdte" in my text.