eenzelfde

English translation: a similar

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Dutch term or phrase:eenzelfde
English translation:a similar
Entered by: bgranger

11:30 Apr 6, 2005
Dutch to English translations [Non-PRO]
Bus/Financial - Business/Commerce (general) / nuance
Dutch term or phrase: eenzelfde
A simple question: Is 'eenzelfde' different to 'dezelfde/hetzelfde'?

Een aantal kabelexploitanten heeft reeds te kennen gegeven eenzelfde voornemen te hebben . . .

Here the sense feels like 'a similar'. Thanks! Brian.
bgranger
Netherlands
Local time: 08:32
to have similar intentions
Explanation:
I believe "similar" covers it Brian
Selected response from:

Lawyer-Linguist
Portugal
Local time: 07:32
Grading comment
Thank you once more,Deborah.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +5the same
Buck
4 +2to have similar intentions
Lawyer-Linguist
5 +1a similar/same intention
Jack den Haan
3 +2a similar
Christopher Smith
4a like; a similar (AND/OR) an identical; the same
Michael Beijer


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
the same


Explanation:
I think this should actually be two words, but the meaning is: the same (similar would also be acceptable, in my opinion).

Buck
Netherlands
Local time: 08:32
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 24

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Kate Hudson
1 min

agree  Lawyer-Linguist: sorry Buck didn't see you when typing
1 min

agree  Siobhan Schoonhoff-Reilly
1 min

neutral  FullCircle (X): eenzelfde (should be one word here) does not mean the same as dezelfde
23 mins
  -> thanks, writeaway

agree  writeaway: according to Jurlex it's the same, and according to the definition of 'eenzelfde' in my 3 volume Van Dale
1 hr

agree  Ariser
3 hrs
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5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
to have similar intentions


Explanation:
I believe "similar" covers it Brian

Lawyer-Linguist
Portugal
Local time: 07:32
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 70
Grading comment
Thank you once more,Deborah.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  FullCircle (X)
23 mins
  -> tks Marion

agree  Meturgan: Exactly. And you were 2 minutes faster than Christopher.
40 mins
  -> :-) tks Meturgan!

neutral  writeaway: I was surprised to see this translated as similar so I checked and found no confirmation-perhaps equivalent comes a bit closer?/then equivalent isn't accurate enough either-it's the same
1 hr
  -> I understand equivalent as meaning "having a same or similar effect" in this context - so no problem with the suggestion, don't know if it's any closer as such but worth Brian mulling over. Keep well.
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7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
a similar


Explanation:
I think you are right that there is a slight difference in nuance between 'eenzelfde' and 'dezelfde'. You might translate as something like "have come to a similar conclusion".

Christopher Smith
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:32
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 15

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  edith1
2 mins
  -> Thanks Edith

agree  FullCircle (X)
21 mins
  -> Thanks Marion
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
a similar/same intention


Explanation:
Although this question has been closed, I would like to draw attention to what the Alg. Ned. Spraakkunst has to say about this.

"Van de bovenstaande combinaties is ... eenzelfde (door het onbepaalde karakter van 'een') altijd classificerend; de andere zijn altijd identificerend als ze naar personen verwijzen, identificerend of classificerend bij verwijzing naar niet-personen". Examples: "Ze had dezelfde jurk aan als gisteren (identificerend); "Ze had dezelfde jurk aan als haar vriendin (classificerend)".

If my interpretation is correct, this means: identificerend = identical = the same, classificerend = similar. Thus, 'eenzelfde voornemen' is always 'classificerend' and therefore means 'similar'. I have a different feeling about the intention of the writer than Brian, however, and think that he/she is trying to express that the 'kabelexploitanten' have exactly the same intention, not just a similar intention (the latter possibly deviating to some extent from the intentions of the others). If he/she had meant 'similar', I think the more explicit 'soortgelijke voornemens' would have been used. In my humble opinion, the brief context also seems to suggest this.

My conclusion is that 'a similar intention' is a correct translation, but my 'gut feeling' -- excuse the expression -- as a born Dutchman is that 'a same intention' is what the writer is trying to convey. I'm almost sure most Dutchmen would interpret 'eenzelfde' as meaning 'the same'!

The spelling of the term, by the way, is usually (according to ANS) 'een zelfde'. According to Handboek Verzorgd Nederlands (Klein/Visser, Martinus Nijhoff) it OUGHT to spelt as 'een zelfde'.

Jack den Haan
Netherlands
Local time: 08:32
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 68

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  writeaway: my 'gut feeling' as an Nl-En translator is that it means the same.The defnition in the Groot Van Dale confirms this-similar is too far away from the concept expressed by the Dutch, imho. NL has many words which do mean 'similar' but not this one.
16 hrs
  -> tks
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2068 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
a like; a similar (AND/OR) an identical; the same


Explanation:
In reference to the asker's question, "Is 'eenzelfde' different to 'dezelfde/hetzelfde'?"

Well, according to the authorities on this matter (the various wordbooks), you might be inclined to say that it means BOTH, "the same as" (as in identical to), AND/OR "similar to".

The sentence,

"Een aantal kabelexploitanten heeft reeds te kennen gegeven eenzelfde voornemen te hebben (...)"

could be translated as folllows:

"A number of cable operators have already expressed a similar intention (...)"

However, it also seems possible to translate it as,

"A number of cable operators have already expressed the same (an identical) intention (...)"

--------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------
(1) The Jansonius (Nieuw Groot Nederlands-Engels Woordenboek, Tweede druk 1972) defines "eenzelfde" as:


"a like" (i.e., a similar)

He gives this sentence:

"leningen voor eenzelfde bedrag en eenzelfde termijn"

and offers the translations:

"a like"

--------------------------------------------------------------
(2) The Van Dale Groot Woordenboek Van de Nederlandse Taal (14de Editie) defines "eenzelfde" as:

eenzelfde:

een·zelf·de

aanwijz. voornaamw.

1
·
(formeel) overeenkomend, identiek met wat is genoemd
synoniem: dergelijk

--------------------------------------------------------------
(3) The Van Dale Groot Woordenboek Van de Nederlandse Taal (14de Editie) defines "dergelijk" as:

dergelijk:

der·ge·lijk

aanwijz. voornaamw. (al of niet bepalingaankondigend)

(1236) van der, verbogen vorm van de + gelijk; het eerste lid is de 2e nv. mv. van de, naast desgelijk(s)

eerste editie 1864


1
·
overeenkomende met iets dat tevoren genoemd is
synoniem: dusdanig, zodanig, zulk


wijn, bier en dergelijke dranken

ik houd niet van dergelijke affaires

deze en dergelijke redenen


1
·
iets dergelijks
1
·
en dergelijke

--------------------------------------------------------------

(4) My Dutch-English Van Dale (Versie 2.1, 2006) defines "dergelijk" as:

dergelijk (aanwijzend voornaamwoord)
similar
(the) like, such(like)
 context
deze en dergelijke redenen
these and similar / other such reasons
wijn, bier en dergelijke dranken
wine, beer and similar drinks / drinks of that sort
en dergelijke
and the like
(zelfstandig (gebruikt)) iets dergelijks
something similar / of the kind / sort
iets dergelijks bestaat bij ons niet
we have nothing like that / of the kind here, there's no such thing here
iets dergelijks heb ik nog nooit meegemaakt
I have never experienced anything like it

--------------------------------------------------------------
Also interesting is:
--------------------------------------------------------------
The English Adjectives of Comparison: A Diachronic Case Study, by Tine Breban

(Page 273)


However, the data also contain certain new postdeterminer uses of identical in NEW contexts. Similar to same, the non-phoric postdeterminer use of IDENTICAL in examples with internal comparison, such as (31), becomes more frequent (4 of the 18 postdeterminer examples). However, in this period. in contrast to SAME, this non-phoric postdeterminer use is no longer limited to the combination THE IDENTICAL, but also manifests itself in the indefinite constructions AN IDENTICAL + count noun and NOT IDENTICAL + UNCOUNT NOUN, as illustrated by (32). Thus, the indefinite construction, found in 2 of the 4 non-phoric examples, becomes a new context in which IDENTICAL allows for grammatical semantics, similar to the combination EENZELFDE [a same] in Dutch. In fact, this new grammatical reading of IDENTICAL in indefinite NPs is not restricted to constructions with internal comparison, i.e. the non-phoric postdeterminer use, but also becomes available in NPs with external comparison, generating phoric uses (encountered in 1 of the 14 phoric postdeterminer data). The resulting combination of indefinite article and phoric postdeterminer signalling identity is, however, only appropriate in very specific contexts, as IDENTICAL conveys the idea that the instance denoted by the NP is the same as another instance that is present in the discourse context, while the indefinite article indicates that the instance denoted by the NP cannot/should not be identified. Contexts which satisfy both requirements are contexts in which the particular instance is only available by implication, and hence not yet identifiable for the hearer. For instance, in (33), the combination of the indefinite article with a postdeterminer signalling identity is licensed because in the context it is not relevant which specific language is being talkcd about; the only important point is that it is the same language that is shared by the foreigner and the speaker.

(31) Thus, this animistic bclief in samsara <f> in sense allegorico <f> claims that
THE IDENTICAL VIJNANA as a subject of samsara can be literally reincarnated as
different lives - the heavenly, the human, the animal, the ghostly and the
purgatorial - one after the other, without cease, all during its livce of pre-
nirvana. (CB)

(32) It is clear that in employing vernacular languages for translation, missionaries saw these languages as more than arbitrary devices. On the contrary, they saw them as endowed with divine significance, so that they may substitute completely for the language of revelation. The fact that all languages are, for
the purposes of Christian translation, interchangeable, makes them
'instrumental', so that in their very differences they all serve AN IDENTICAL
PURPOSE. (CB)

(33) How can we heartily obey one who is but a foreigner with the accident of AN
IDENTICAL LANGUAGE? (CLMET 1850-1920)

(http://books.google.com/books?id=wKEpVqTKOusC&pg=PA253&lpg=P...

Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:32
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 68
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