onderlijf

17:32 Mar 25, 2013 

Thank you for your comment at any rate:

"I've chosen this answer as the best because it seems to make it very clear that they sell above-ground structures (columns) and substructures ..."

If I follow your logic this would have been more appropriate/logical/symmetrical in my opinion

.... they sell aboveground structures (columns) and underground structures (rather than 'substructures')

apart from that, your text offers 'container met onderlijf'

which must be the column (as you call it) plus the underground container (an underground structure )

(as I said the object is inadequately described and 'container' at the end of the sentence (100% sure) must be 'betonput', which shows your text is written by someone who is not well-informed)

moreover 'onderlijf' as such is simply the 'underground container' (see references), one of the underground structures

so I don't think you should put 'substructure' for 'onderlijf' in the glossary, if you want to use structure then 'underground structure' would be more appropriate, best just 'underground container'

20:28 Mar 22, 2013 

Inderdaad. Anders had ik misschien wel 'private parts' als vertaling voorgesteld ;-)

14:50 Mar 22, 2013 

Deze keer is het GEEN octrooiaanvraag! ;-)))

14:40 Mar 22, 2013 

Sorry Barend, I don't agree with you and have neither the time nor the inclination to discuss this further. I think Rosemary has enough information to make her own decision about the term she should use.

13:40 Mar 22, 2013 

Let's get this clear.

I think we could agree that the 'onderlijf' as such is an underground container.
On page 19 you find just the 'onderlijf' without the 'superstructure': Metro®-onderlijf 5m³.

So we don't need to question whether the 'onderlijf' is below ground level or not: it is below ground level (and I believe this is why it is called 'onderlijf').

Then as far as the image on page 12 is concerned.
I agree that an 'onderlijf' conjures up images of a 'bovenlijf'. :-)
And it is true that in this case both the 'onderlijf' (the container - see image on page 19) and the superstructure are lifted out of the 'betonput' as a unit.
So you could call the 'onderlijf' the substructure and the 'inwerpzuil' the superstructure.
However, if you need to translate just 'onderlijf' then of course you go for 'underground container' because this is much clearer and much more accurate than 'substructure', which can be anything.

If you need to find a translation for the object that is lifted out of the 'betonput' on page 12, that is, the underground container + 'inwerpzuil', then certainly you can't come up with just 'substructure', you needed a translation for the total unit.

12:51 Mar 22, 2013 

The photo on page 12 clearly shows a superstructure and a substructure part on what in the caption is referred to as an 'ondergronds afvalsysteem'. I think this reference is not quite 'kosher' in its terminology use, and that the underground section shown here is (also) clearly an 'onderlijf'. 'Onderlijf' in itself suggests there is also a 'bovenlijf', and I think the technical terms of substructure and superstructure cover that notion perfectly.

12:38 Mar 22, 2013 

Good references, good images and and good music to boot. :-)

They show the same principles you find in my reference.

12:28 Mar 22, 2013 

Have a look at the information in my reference and see my first discussion entry.

I even believe it is called 'onderlijf' just because it is below ground level.

5. Onder de grond
5.1 Onderlijf
5.2 Betonput
5.3 Invalbeveiliging

Apart from that, the 'onderlijf' IS a/the container.
See the image on page 19: Metro®-onderlijf 5m³.

10:39 Mar 22, 2013 

What if the only part of the whole thing is underground?

07:22 Mar 22, 2013 

Als je dat als antwoord plaatst, krijg je van mij een "agree":

http://www.sotkon.com/en/16/standard_underground_containers
http://www.sotkon.com/en/2/modularity

(Ben het eens dat "onderlijf" hier erg ongelukkig gekozen is!)

23:48 Mar 21, 2013 

A possible solution is to just translate

'container met onderlijf' as 'underground container'

Possibly they use the expression 'container met onderlijf' because they consider (see images on pages 11 and 12 of the reference below) the aboveground structure to be part of the container, while in actual fact I don't think this is correct.
It is rather the other way around: 'onderlijf (container) + aboveground structure (inwerpzuil)'.

'underground container' is unambiguous and makes clear what this is about.

I also have my doubts about:

"... is het van belang dat er niemand in de container kan vallen"

I suspect that they mean:

"... is het van belang dat er niemand in de BETONPUT kan vallen"

How could somebody possibly fall in this container (the 'onderlijf') !? :

De BETONPUT is voorzien van een invalbeveiliging welke in werking treedt op het moment dat het inzamelsysteem wordt geledigd. De invalbeveiliging zorgt ervoor dat het gat in de BETONPUT op dat moment wordt afgedekt.

Again see reference and relevant images.

22:34 Mar 21, 2013 

Correct me if am wrong

(also images, especially see image on page 11)
(see also image on page 19: Metro®-onderlijf 5m³)

According to this definition the 'onderlijf' seems to be the 'opslagvoorziening' which is below ground level:

5. Onder de grond

5.1 Onderlijf
Onder de grond bevindt zich de opslagvoorziening. Dit is een robuuste, compleet doorgelaste en thermisch verzinkte stalen container met een inhoud variërend van 3 tot 5m³ en één, twee of drie gescheiden compartimenten

Further you find below ground level the 'betonput' and 'invalbeveiliging'

5. Onder de grond
5.1 Onderlijf
5.2 Betonput
5.3 Invalbeveiliging

http://vconsyst.nl/upload/Metro-inzamelsystemen.pdf