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Dutch to English translations [PRO] Science - Geography / Water management
Dutch term or phrase:doorstroomgebied
A single-word caption under a diagram in a document on water management. The diagram shows a marshy area at the bend of a river, through which a proportion of the river flows.
I understand. But let's not forget that water comes from rain (or molten snow, which is also precipitation), if water bursts dykes, that water is of the same origin (ocean water too, to some extent), so high water is caused by rain/molten snow anyway. But then this term in E would only like to allow for river water, and not from the bursting of ocean dykes, or extra rain ... which makes torrents on land anyway ... Interesting, but thanks.
I presume it's not tautological because flooding of an area may be caused by something other than high water, e.g. a dyke bursting, or simply excessive rainfall. The term clarifies that this area is subject to flooding when the river water level is high, which does seem self-evident to an extent.
A lively debate I see! The customer, a specialist in this field, thankfully with colleagues outside of the Dutch-language area, has provided the following translation: HIGH-WATER FLOOD CHANNEL/AREA.
sorry, not correct. A floodplain is a whole area with the sediments of (mostly) one past and present river system, so in most places it used to be 'doorstroomgebied', in other places it may be that now. Like the Amazon valley is a floodplain ... but it has higher-level, abandoned terraces as well. The rest is flowing water, and between the rivers and the higher terraces, there're river flats/flood basins, where, if there're special circumstances (rarely in the case of that balanced system), extra high waters could flow through. If not, those latter areas are simply huge marshes.
[…] Figuur 10.2: Weergave sedimentatie [ton per twee jaar, per segment], door dagelijkse omstandigheden, in de kreken en uiterwaarden (floodplains) van Noordwaard-tak 2 voor 1986-1987
[…]
Het Biesbosch historisch model geeft een beperkte sedimentatie in de kreken en floodplains van het doorstroomgebied. Dit wordt veroorzaakt door een sterke sedimentatie in de geulen van de Biesbosch."
(Hoofdrapport: Doorstroommogelijkheden: Een studie naar de relatie tussen morfologie en ontwerp van kreken in een getij beïnvloed doorstroomgebied. TU Delft: http://goo.gl/05QiVB )
The authors are using the following terms:
kreken = main flow area uiterwaard = floodplain ("het niet permanent stroomvoerende deel")
See also:
Huitenga, T.: Nederlands-Engels Woordenboek voor Landbouwwetenschappen (Numij, 1976).: "uiterwaard(en)" = river foreland(s), river foreshore(s), washland(s); riverside land(s); river bed; haugh(s); (hooiland) river meadow(s); (ongev.) flood bed (plain), inundation area.
Assuming a "doorstroomgebied" = a "floodplain", as you said, how do you explain this:
"7.Programma van eisen modellering
[…]
7.2 Uitgangspunten De uitgangspunten van de modellering geven aan welke condities relevant of niet relevant zijn verondersteld voor het model. Hierin worden algemene en modelspecifieke uitgangspunten onderscheiden. Deze uitgangspunten dienen achteraf gecontroleerd te worden, in hoofdstuk 9 gebeurt dit voor de modelspecifieke uitgangspunten
UD1: Een 1D Schematisatie van het doorstroomgebied, waarin onderscheid gemaakt wordt tussen de ‘mainflow area’ en de ‘floodplains’, biedt resultaten die representatief verondersteld worden voor de werkelijkheid. UD2: Zandtransport en sedimentatie heeft slechts een zeer beperkte invloed op de morfologie van het doorstroomgebied. UD3: De lokale geografie (bodemhoogte) over het doorstroomgebied is overal gelijk (NAP +0,8 m). […]
Tevens is de optie parallel segment aangezet, waardoor verschil gemaakt kan worden tussen de sedimentatie in de kreken (Main flow area) en in het niet permanent stroomvoerende deel. Dit gedeelte wordt gemakshalve in de rest van het rapport aangeduid als uiterwaard (floodplain)
In the heat of the debate I've almost forgotten to add sg. about the through-flow v. flow-through area debate. I've found only 1 Br. example in Michael's Maritime J, and oddly enough, that says (about radar use) "when measured data is factored through flow equations". This refers to measuring the amount of water flowing through a place. And is not a hyphenated phrase with 'area' either. Further, I take the liberty not to consider Dutch sources the most authentic as E sources (about Rotterdam, e.g.).
More importantly, I'd like to point out that 'flow' means current, either of the river, or an ocean current as in the Indon. Throughflow. It is therefore a noun, and as 'current area' cannot mean anything but the river, this phrase is out, I think. Whether 'flow-through' is legitimate or not, I remain highly dubious.
to your Oxford source on floodplain: that's it! Almost the whole of the Netherlands are a floodplain! All is formed of sediments of the Rhein and subject to flooding, but of course, you mostly drain the most low-lying areas and flooded them in times of war. Thank you, that's what we mean. Except that here there's a smaller, more specific area in question, for which I suggested "flood basin, river flats".
… Voor de inrichting van het doorstroomgebied bestaan drie hoofdrichtingen: • afvoer over maaiveld en de aanleg van lage kades in het doorstroomgebied, gericht op extensieve landbouw; • afvoer over maaiveld zonder lage kades; • verlaging van het maaiveld, gericht op maximale afvoer."
"In de Startnotitie is, op basis van de Verkenning Noordwaard5, gekozen voor de maatregel Ontpoldering Noordwaard met kades waarbij het doorstroomgebied middendoor ligt. … Via een uitgebreid krekenstelsel en de laag bekade polders stroomt het water via het doorstroomgebied naar de uitstroomopeningen aan de zuidwestzijde van het plangebied. … De maatregel betreft het gedeeltelijk afgraven van de dijken aan de instroom- en uitstroomkant van de polder tot een hoogte van ongeveer 2 meter boven NAP. Het zogeheten doorstroomgebied staat minimaal enkele keren per jaar, vooral in de wintermaanden, onder water. …
In de Verkenning Noordwaard is vervolgens onderbouwd dat het niet wenselijk en niet noodzakelijk is om de Noordwaard geheel meestromend te maken en dat ontpoldering met kades de voorkeur verdient. Daarnaast is onderbouwd dat een doorstroomgebied middendoor het beste voldoet aan de gestelde doelstellingen en randvoorwaarden (zie paragraaf 7.3) en de minste milieueffecten geeft. …
I don't think it's simply an overflow area or floodplain. I think it's a polder, where the government or whoever is in charge of this stuff, are trying to manage the area. Using ditches, they direct the water through (door) this area, from one direction to another.
Sorry, I missed to go back to your original references. 1. Out of which the reference to the R. Tisza "is a through-flow area for the regional flow system" means simply that all water flows through it from the E-Carpathian basin, so it means the river itself. Out(ch). 2. The reference to the Alaskan ground-water system is out, as has been mentioned. 3. I've already mentioned that the Indonesian Throughflow is an ocean current. Out(ch). The other references seem to hold water:) (at high water) but their relative rarity is no wonder. I'd still use Richars' floodplain and my suggestions for natives to understand. There're quite a lot more of them than Dutch, so better not create new phrases and force them down their throats. But feel free as you like, it's a free world and I otherwise respect your place in it, you have a right. But I wouldn't hold a Dutch dict. a valid source for everything E., not more than a Hungarian one either.
If it's a "diagram in a document on water management" (which is what Will said), I'm sure the readers will understand "through-flow area". It's not an article in the Daily Mirror ;)
or flow-through doesn't means thing to me, unless we're talking about exhaust systems or the like. If the intention of a translation is to be readable, that won't work; a native won't understand it,and won't find enlightenment on the net either. Whereas if I read RWS' explanation which I posted earlier, it is simple.
I didn't miss ANY of them - they are simply in Dutch, and we're looking for an English equivalent. I see no "through-flow area" in any of your postings - not in English, mind you!
Plus, drainage simply means something where water is drained away, in this case by natural processes. The point is, those three translations mean very different phenomena. 6.Feel free to make your own English, like 'river overflow area', but not a lot of people may agree with you who know what it is about.
and other words meaning temporary river bed are for. In D, it emphasizes the fact that water flows through it. In E (and HU), it doesn't. 4.Andrew, a bend doesn't cause an obstruction. An obstruction causes a bend. That's how "SIMPLE" it is ... 5.Michael: if Huitinga has "(1) stroomgebied: drainage basin (area); catchment basin (area); river (fluvial) basin (area);", then again, he has given various different meanings. Of which there's no such thing as 'catchment basin' - it's called a 'cathcment area', which may consist of a lot of largely independent basins that may only be connected at the very lowest points where their respective rivers unite into a huge river. Fluvial area/basin may not exist - but:"Fluvial is a term used in geography and geology to refer to the processes associated with rivers and streams and the deposits and landforms created by them." I can't see many results to 'fluvial basin' - "Fluvial terraces are elongated terraces that flank the sides of floodplains and fluvial valleys all over the world. They consist of a relatively level strip of land, called a “tread,” " (Wikip.) foll.
this may be much ado about nothing, but to me the following things hold: 1. Through-flow area and flow-through area are not legitimate E phrases - the closest to either is the "Indonesian Throughflow" (1 noun), which is an ocean current. So several of you are voting for non-existent phrases. 2. An "area that a river flows through is called a river". True. That's why the above 2 have no reason to exist. You're translating into E as if each part of a Dutch word should have a part-for-part meaning. IMHO, 'door' doesn't literally mean 'through' here, not in the sense as water normally flows through its bed. It should mean an area through which it may flow if there's too much water in the area. Then it must flow somewhere, of course, so it flows through if there's enough water. 3.Andrew, a marshy area by the river is not necessarily and "implicitly causing some form of obstruction". Perhaps no obstruction at all, it's just that behind a bend the shore is always higher! Because the river has already left it behind earlier, that's why the concave side. If it's a marsh, then it still lies low, so the water can flow through it at high tide, otherwise not. That's what a flood basin/plain ...
Andrew, the area that a river flows through is called a river imho. The original posting doesn't refer to the size of this area, which is pretty relevant. 'River overflow area' might fit.
I fail to understand all the toing and froing. It's simple. If you read the original posting it refers to an area which PART of a river FLOWS THROUGH owing to the fact that a bend is implicitly causing some form of obstruction. Hence flow-through or though-flow area. Come on guys, you cannot get simpler than that!!
I don't think anyone here actually knows what the difference is between "stroomgebied" and "doorstroomgebied", let alone how to translate them into English. I certainly don't anymore ;)
ongelukkig gaat het over "Door stroomgebied Drenthse Aa afwisselende wandeling door mooi Drents landschap" enz. Stroomgebied is catchment area for sure, and people can 'door deze gebied wandelen', maar doorstroomgebied is een speciale soort stroomgebied: the flood basin/plains/river flats etc.
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drentsche_Aa : "In het stroomgebied van de Drentsche Aa ligt het Nationaal beek- en esdorpenlandschap Drentsche Aa, dat de driehoek Assen - Gieten - Glimmen omvat."
'Het zogeheten doorstroomgebied staat minimaal enkele keren per jaar onder water, vooral in de wintermaanden. In de overige door kades omgeven delen van de Noordwaard gebeurt dit veel minder vaak. Deze gebieden zullen eens in de 100 tot 1000 jaar meestromen.'
Flow-through/through-flow seems completely irrelevant to me, seeing as all rivers flow.
geography has something to do with almost everything, sure with water management ... you seem to know very little about it, sorry, like so many others. Also, you seem to be knocking on open doors - in my sources, it also says these areas are not necessarily flooded very often, I also mentioned it in my answer.
So I propose an answer, 6 minutes before someone over on TCafé, and someone here feels the need to snootily give my answer a "neutral", ostensibly because I provided refs, and the person over on TCafé didn't. No thanks for manually copying over all that stuff from my Huitenga dictionary, no, instead I get a neutral. And someone else felt the need to neutralise my answer, in favour of a synonym, with the words reversed.
Looks like a floodplain or wash to me. I'm from East Anglia, not wholly different from NL in terms of water management guys.
http://molometer.hubpages.com/video/floods-in-uk-hose-pipe-b... When tides are high combined with heavy rain, and the rivers are in full bore, they are allowed to over-top the banks and flow into this central strip of land (the washes) In so doing they perform two functions. Firstly they act as a defense for a 112 square miles of rich farmland further upriver and act as a huge water storage system.
geography has NOTHING to do with water management!
A "doorstroomgebied" doesn't necessarily have to be flooded every year, it just so happens (or not). Its main function is to keep the water levels on a steady height elsewhere/other towns. The flooding is just an inconvenient byproduct.
I find Dutch E interesting. Not only has it "beamer" for "overhead projector" (or video projector) although it turns up in Google (seems to filter through to some E sites too) but seems to have flow-through area, which doesn't seem to yield any valid results in Google search. My translation was based on the Dutch definition of the word, then translated from Hungarian with checks in E. You may not like it but I have a degree in geography and my instincts tell me I'm right. Of course you can contradict me. Actually, "stroomlandschap" as flood plain scenery supports me!
Net zoals de Inuit 180 woorden voor sneeuw kennen, hebben de NLers zeer specifieke woorden m.b.t. water. Doorstroomgebied komt wellicht alleen in NL voor.
I have also posted this question on translatorscafe.com.
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
7 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +1
flow-through area
Explanation: Will, this seems logical to me. If a proportion of the river (continues) to flow through this area (as indicated in your description) then this how I would define it.
Andrew Howitt Netherlands Local time: 02:47 Works in field Native speaker of: English
peer agreement (net): +1