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op deze overeenkomst is het Engelse recht vqn toepassing

English translation: Titia, David,

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05:48 Nov 17, 2001
Dutch to English translations [Non-PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / legal
Dutch term or phrase: op deze overeenkomst is het Engelse recht vqn toepassing
legal
helmut
English translation:Titia, David,
Explanation:
Article 4 of the EC Convention on the Law Applicable to Contractual Obligations (Rome 1980) referred to by Titia states:
"Article 4 - Applicable law in the absence of choice
1. To the extent that the law applicable to the contract has not been chosen in accordance with article 3, the contract SHALL BE GOVERNED BY THE LAWS OF THE COUNTRY with which it is most closely connected. Nevertheless, a severable part of the contract which has a closer connection with another country may by way of exception BE GOVERNED BY THE LAW OF THAT OTHER COUNTRY.

This must surely clinch the argument, the more so since you suggested the source yourself.

I look foward to your comments.
Selected response from:

xxxjarry
South Africa
Local time: 13:09
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5This agreement shall be governed by English lawxxxjarry
5I do not agree with the use of the word governed.
Dave Greatrix
5applicable toTitia Dijkstra
4 +1David,xxxjarry
5Titia, David,xxxjarry
4 +1Jarry
Dave Greatrix
5applicable toTitia Dijkstra
5applicable toTitia Dijkstra
5I am amazed at
Dave Greatrix
5 -1applicable toTitia Dijkstra
5 -1applicable toTitia Dijkstra
4Titia,xxxjarry
4this agreements falls under the jurisdiction of English lawShilpa Dawda
5 -1the laws of the United Kingdom are applicable to this agreement
Alexander Schleber
5 -1This Agreement shall be governed by and interpreted according
Sven Petersson
5 -1This Agreement shall be governed by and interpreted according
Sven Petersson
5 -1This agreement shall be governed by English laws
Evert DELOOF-SYS
4 -1Info
Dave Greatrix
4 -1This agreement shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of EnglandxxxHenri
4 -1English law is applicable to this agreement
Dave Greatrix


  

Answers


26 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
English law is applicable to this agreement


Explanation:
I'm English

Dave Greatrix
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:09
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 18

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  xxxjarry: See http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=agreement ...
4 hrs
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27 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
the laws of the United Kingdom are applicable to this agreement


Explanation:
Telstra United Kingdom - Copyright
... This web-site and its contents are subject to copyright under the laws of the
United Kingdom and, through international treaties, other countries. The ...
www.telstra.co.uk/copyrightpg.htm - 18k - In cache - Gelijkwaardige pagina's

HTH

Alexander Schleber
Belgium
Local time: 12:09
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 32

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Dave Greatrix: united kingdom is England,Wales,Scotland,Northern Ireland,Channel Islands,Gibraltar and God knows where else
8 mins
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39 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
This agreement shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of England


Explanation:
Please note that I am a


    certified/sworn translator
xxxHenri
Local time: 12:09

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Dave Greatrix: construed can mean to be understood in a particular way.That has not been asked for in the text.
11 mins
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
This Agreement shall be governed by and interpreted according


Explanation:
Standard formulation:

This Agreement shall be governed by and interpreted according
to English law.


    My geriatric brain.
Sven Petersson
Sweden
Local time: 12:09
Native speaker of: Native in SwedishSwedish, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 2

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Dave Greatrix: see below
2 hrs
  -> What's your objection??????
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
This Agreement shall be governed by and interpreted according


Explanation:
Standard formulation:

This Agreement shall be governed by and interpreted according
to English law.


    My geriatric brain.
    Confirmed by Google.
Sven Petersson
Sweden
Local time: 12:09
Native speaker of: Native in SwedishSwedish, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 2

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Dave Greatrix: see below
1 hr
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
This agreement shall be governed by English laws


Explanation:
Ref.:
"... shall be considered deleted and not apply but the rest of this agreement shall apply.
16. This Agreement shall be governed by English laws and English Courts. ..."

www.costumecrazy.co.uk/Terms.asp

Evert DELOOF-SYS
Belgium
Local time: 12:09
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch, Native in FlemishFlemish
PRO pts in category: 32

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Dave Greatrix: see below
1 hr
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
This agreement shall be governed by English law


Explanation:
(NOT laws).

xxxjarry
South Africa
Local time: 13:09
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 334

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Dave Greatrix: see below
13 mins
  -> See http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=agreement ...

agree  Evert DELOOF-SYS
22 mins
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
I do not agree with the use of the word governed.


Explanation:
This would imply that the agreement is under the influence of English Law. Which is clearly not the case. The only time that English Law would be APPLICABLE would be in the case of a dispute, which may be a situation that never arises.

Dave Greatrix
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:09
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 18

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Titia Dijkstra: The best choice is a literal translation - English law graduate.
33 mins
  -> Thanks,Titia

disagree  xxxjarry: SWee http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=agreement ...
1 hr
  -> The author has used the words "van toepassing"
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
Info


Explanation:
Main Entry: gov.ern
Pronunciation: 'g&-v&rn
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French governer, from Latin gubernare to steer, govern, from Greek kybernan
Date: 14th century
transitive senses
1 a : to exercise continuous sovereign authority over; especially : to control and direct the making and administration of policy in b : to rule without sovereign power and usually without having the authority to determine basic policy
2 a archaic : MANIPULATE b : to control the speed of (as a machine) especially by automatic means
3 a : to control, direct, or strongly influence the actions and conduct of b : to exert a determining or guiding influence in or over c : to hold in check : RESTRAIN
4 : to require (a word) to be in a certain case
5 : to serve as a precedent or deciding principle for
intransitive senses
1 : to prevail or have decisive influence : CONTROL
2 : to exercise authority
- gov.ern.able /-v&r-n&-b&l/ adjective


Dave Greatrix
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:09
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 18

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  xxxjarry: See http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&q=agreement ...
1 hr
  -> govern is regeren or besturen!
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1 day 4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
this agreements falls under the jurisdiction of English law


Explanation:
or the laws of the United Kindgom.

--- that's what's written in any agreements that are signed here in India, which again is a left over from the Britishers...

Shilpa Dawda
India
Local time: 16:39
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench, Native in EnglishEnglish
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1 day 18 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
I am amazed at


Explanation:
the number of attempts to replace the authors text with one of their own. I know that there is such a thing as translators licence, but get real.
Remember KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid.

No offence intended, (It's timeshare jargon)

Dave Greatrix
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:09
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 18

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  xxxjarry: David, there is no 'replacement'; govern is the standard wording in English in this instance. Get with it!
17 mins
  -> Jarry, without more context, I do not feel that it is our place to elaborate on what the author has written.

agree  Titia Dijkstra
5 hrs
  -> Thank you, Titia. It does annoy me when people try to make a novel out of a comic.
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2 days 1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
David,


Explanation:
To insinuate that I am making a novel out of a comic is rather uncalled for, to put it mildly. I would suggest that you confine your comments to the subject matter under review and show us that 'This agreement is governed by English law' is not the standard wording for: "Op deze overeenkomst is het Engelse recht van toepassing". If you succeed, you will create quite a stir with quite a lot of people, including some well-known experts. I have been using this standard translation for some 20 years! I look forward to your attempts.

xxxjarry
South Africa
Local time: 13:09
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 334

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Dave Greatrix: No offence meant, Jarry, but it's difficuilt to wink online. I'm quit a nice chap actually, ask my wife.
1 day 7 hrs
  -> There are a number of symbols for winking on line (:- When next you are in Cape Town drop in for a delicious glass of Cape wine!
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2 days 6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
applicable to


Explanation:
I would like to add to the merits of this discussion. I've been a legal translator for top lawyers for more than six years (admittedly not as long as Jarry), but in addition to my studies in law in England and in Holland quite a track record I would say.
In my experience, one should be slow to claim anything as a "standard" translation in legal translation. I stand by David's choice - it is also the choice of quite a few experts that I know (with a British law background).

Titia Dijkstra
Local time: 12:09
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch, Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  xxxjarry: See my comments below
11 hrs
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2 days 18 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Titia,


Explanation:
Experts, as you know, don't always agree.
In this case there is no question of being slow or quick in claiming that something is a 'standard' translation. It can substantiated in a number of ways. The definition of govern in Black's Law Dictionary for instance is: "To be a rule, precedent, law, or deciding principle."
What I would like to know from you or David is: What else can the words "Op deze overeenkomst is het Engelse recht van toepassing" mean than that 'English law governs this agreement'. If you can convince me that it means something else than that, bearing Black's definition in mind, I will gladly change my mind.
I would also urge the two of you to look at the many hits you get in Google for 'governed by English law'. From the context in which these words are used, you can judge that they have the same meaning as the Dutch phrase under review.
For the time being I stand by my suggested translation.

xxxjarry
South Africa
Local time: 13:09
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 334
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2 days 19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
applicable to


Explanation:
I'll agree with Jarry that experts don't always agree.
He uses Black's as a starting point for the discussion and although there can be no doubt that Black's is an excellent source on terminology commonly used in American law, I only use British and EC law sources (Oxford has published an extensive British law dictionary, but not with quite as many entries as Black's).
I would like to point out that this is the title of an EC Convention: EC Convention on the Law Applicable to Contractual Obligations (Rome 1980).
Similarly, if one enters "applicable to" in Google, one gets quite a few useful references.

Titia Dijkstra
Local time: 12:09
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch, Native in EnglishEnglish
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2 days 19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
applicable to


Explanation:
I'll agree with Jarry that experts don't always agree.
Again, he uses Black's as a starting point for the discussion and although there can be no doubt that Black's is an excellent source on terminology commonly used in American law, I only use British and EC law sources (Oxford has published an extensive British law dictionary, but not with quite as many entries as Black's).
I would like to point out in support of David's/my choice that this is the title of an EC Convention: EC Convention on the Law Applicable to Contractual Obligations (Rome 1980).
Similarly, if one enters "applicable to" in Google, one gets quite a few useful references.

Titia Dijkstra
Local time: 12:09
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch, Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  xxxjarry: Please see:http://www.jus.uio.no/lm/pdf/ec.applicable.law.contracts.198... (article 4)
1 hr
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2 days 21 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
Titia, David,


Explanation:
Article 4 of the EC Convention on the Law Applicable to Contractual Obligations (Rome 1980) referred to by Titia states:
"Article 4 - Applicable law in the absence of choice
1. To the extent that the law applicable to the contract has not been chosen in accordance with article 3, the contract SHALL BE GOVERNED BY THE LAWS OF THE COUNTRY with which it is most closely connected. Nevertheless, a severable part of the contract which has a closer connection with another country may by way of exception BE GOVERNED BY THE LAW OF THAT OTHER COUNTRY.

This must surely clinch the argument, the more so since you suggested the source yourself.

I look foward to your comments.


    Reference: http://www.jus.uio.no/lm/pdf/ec.applicable.law.contracts.198...
xxxjarry
South Africa
Local time: 13:09
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 334
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2 days 23 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
applicable to


Explanation:
All I can say that the fact that the wording of the article uses the words "governed by" does not alter the fact that "applicable to" is used in the title of the convention.
So no, I certainly can't agree to Jarry's statement that the article settles the matter . . .

Titia Dijkstra
Local time: 12:09
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch, Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  xxxjarry: You are the one who said: I only use British and EC law sources
18 hrs
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2 days 23 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
applicable to


Explanation:
Another addition, maybe this will make the matter clearer.
If I were to translate this article into Dutch I would use "van toepassing op" for "applicable to" and "beheerst door" for "governed by" . . .
(P.s. I would rather stop discussing this and maybe I'll leave at this)

Titia Dijkstra
Local time: 12:09
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch, Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  xxxjarry: I continue to disagree and will gladly leave at that.
1 hr

agree  Dave Greatrix: Don't you just love a good scrap?
18 hrs
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3 days 7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Jarry


Explanation:
I didn’t expect such a small phrase to start such a debate. I would like to conclude with the following.
How many times have we all heard from a client, “but that is not what I wrote”, and we all can get very frustrated when we know that strictly speaking we are correct. In cases such as this, not knowing any more than this is an agreement of some kind, we can not allow ourselves the luxury of “Translator’s Licence” We can only work with what we have. Jarry, you should know that after working for many years as a translator. It is generally wrong for a translator to use words that just aren’t there, especially when the info is so limited. I would agree it is often unavoidable, especially in a language such as Dutch where a great deal of the text content is made up of colloquial proverbs and sayings, but that does not apply in this case. It is all the more wrong to give less experienced translators the idea that they can write what they like. By the way I have yet to find any Dutch dictionary on the Internet or anywhere else where “toepassing” is said to mean “govern”

I would like to give special thanks to Titia for her support in my hour of need, and also a special hello to my mate Thijs.

Nite, Nite.


Dave Greatrix
United Kingdom
Local time: 11:09
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 18

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  xxxjarry: It all depends on one's translation philosophy. Mine is to produce a text that reads like an authentic English-language text. My clients love it.
10 hrs

agree  Titia Dijkstra
10 hrs
  -> Thanks Titia, I love you like a sister, but I'm glad your not my wife!
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