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erfpachtsrecht

English translation: right of long-lease

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Dutch term or phrase:erfpachtsrecht
English translation:right of long-lease
Entered by: Kathleen Ferny
Options:
- Contribute to this entry
- Include in personal glossary

14:03 Jun 5, 2002
Dutch to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents
Dutch term or phrase: erfpachtsrecht
Het erfpachtsrecht van een perceel grond.

Thanks!
Kathleen Ferny
Belgium
Local time: 00:13
the right of long-lease
Explanation:
... long-lease and property of the government. What does the right of
long-lease actually mean? The long-lease holder has the right ...
www.sunbelt.an/bon_real_estate.htm

Rights of Use, e.g. the Right of Usufruct, the Right of Servitude, the Right of Long-Lease and the Right of Building;
Rights of Security, e.g. the Right of Lien and the Right of Mortgage.
http://www.spigt.nl/doc-en/rights.of.commodities.intro.html

Vertaald als:

gebruiksrechten, zoals het recht van vruchtgebruik, het recht van erfdienstbaarheid, het erfpachtrecht en het recht van opstal;
zekerheidsrechten, zoals het pandrecht en het recht van hypotheek

http://www.spigt.nl/doc-nl/goederenrecht.intro.html

Selected response from:

Evert DELOOF-SYS
Belgium
Local time: 00:13
Grading comment
Thanks to all the others for their contribution as well. I think this is the most useful term for the document I am translating.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +3the right of long-lease
Evert DELOOF-SYS
5 +1the right of long leasehold
Dave Greatrix
4 +2right of long-term lease
Maria Danielson
4ground rent lease / long residential lease
Chris Hopley
4ground lease, emphyteusis, leasehold, long(-term) leaseSerge L
4Leasehold right(s)
Adam Smith
4right of inheritable tenancyxxxhartran
4 -2hereditary tenure
Bart B. Van Bockstaele


  

Answers


6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
the right of long-lease


Explanation:
... long-lease and property of the government. What does the right of
long-lease actually mean? The long-lease holder has the right ...
www.sunbelt.an/bon_real_estate.htm

Rights of Use, e.g. the Right of Usufruct, the Right of Servitude, the Right of Long-Lease and the Right of Building;
Rights of Security, e.g. the Right of Lien and the Right of Mortgage.
http://www.spigt.nl/doc-en/rights.of.commodities.intro.html

Vertaald als:

gebruiksrechten, zoals het recht van vruchtgebruik, het recht van erfdienstbaarheid, het erfpachtrecht en het recht van opstal;
zekerheidsrechten, zoals het pandrecht en het recht van hypotheek

http://www.spigt.nl/doc-nl/goederenrecht.intro.html



Evert DELOOF-SYS
Belgium
Local time: 00:13
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch, Native in FlemishFlemish
PRO pts in pair: 1278
Grading comment
Thanks to all the others for their contribution as well. I think this is the most useful term for the document I am translating.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Meturgan: http://www.xrefer.com/entry/448523
16 mins

agree  xxxjarry
39 mins

agree  Chris Hopley: I think "long lease" should be without the hyphen.
5 hrs
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15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
ground lease, emphyteusis, leasehold, long(-term) lease


Explanation:
dit zijn enkele mogelijkheden uit Eurodicautom.

Succes,

Serge L.


    Reference: http://europa.eu.int/eurodicautom/
Serge L
Local time: 00:13
PRO pts in pair: 261
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28 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
the right of long leasehold


Explanation:
English abstract
... land leasing. What does leasehold ["erfpacht"] mean? Leasehold - "erfpacht"
under Dutch law - is an interest in property. This means ...
www.grondbedrijf.amsterdam.nl/abstract/english_2.html

Dave Greatrix
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:13
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 1747

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  xxxjarry: Leasehold = The ASSET representing the right of the lessee to use leased property. Is that really what erfpachtrecht is?
21 mins

agree  Chris Hopley: Leasehold is the form of tenure not the asset itself: http://www.lpe.nt.gov.au/land/tenure.htm
2 hrs
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41 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
right of long-term lease


Explanation:
You can choose between:

long-term lease, long lease, building lease, leasehold and perpetual lease

http://europa.eu.int/eurodicautom/

Long-term lease is most common and gets the most Google hits.

Investor Words
http://www.investorwords.com/cgi-bin/getword.cgi?2891

Long-term lease
A lease of ten years or more.

Types of leases listed at Investor Words:
See Also
capital lease, gross lease, land lease, long-term lease, net lease, absorption rate, economic rent, open-end lease, operating lease, pure lease, step-down lease, step-up lease, direct lease, double net lease, triple net lease, gross lease, money factor, sandwich lease




    Reference: http://europa.eu.int/eurodicautom/
    Reference: http://www.investorwords.com/cgi-bin/getword.cgi?2891
Maria Danielson
United States
Local time: 18:13
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 125

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  xxxjarry: Yes, I'd go along with this. Chris' suggestion of ground rent is the payment made for the right to a long lease.
4 hrs

agree  Chris Hopley
4 hrs
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50 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Leasehold right(s)


Explanation:
Another suggestion would simply be 'leasehold right(s)', or 'right(s) to leasehold land'.

Duration can be limited or unlimited:

"het zakelijke recht om gedurende een beperkte of onbeperkte tijd gebruik te hebben van een aan een ander toebehorend onroerend goed(grond)tegen betaling van een jaarlijkse som geld:de(erfpachts)canon genoemd"

from Eurodicautom.

Adam Smith
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:13
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 1145
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -2
hereditary tenure


Explanation:
Normaal ben ik geen grote fan van Van Dale maar in dit geval staan ze toch dichter bij de waarheid.

Bij het vertalen van gerechtelijke/officiële documenten moet je bijzonder voorzichtig zijn met het gebruiken van officiële terminologie. Er is bijna nooit een eenduidige relatie en het kan tot zeer droevige toestanden leiden. Je beschrijft best elke keer tussen haakjes zo nauwkeurig mogelijk wat er precies wordt bedoeld, en dan niet in juridische termen. Dat is nog belangrijker als er een kans is dat de documenten ook werkelijk voor juridisch gebruik zijn bedoeld. Mensen uit de gerechtelijke sfeer kunnen bijzonder onlogisch redeneren.




--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-06-05 19:41:22 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

To Chris:

Ik geef *altijd* uitleg. Dat is mijn taak als vertaler. Als ik een stuk niet begrijp, dan weiger ik de vertaling. Als vertaler wordt je volgens mij niet betaald om een plausibele aftiksel in de andere taal af te geven, maar om een stuk af te geven waar de klant iets kan mee doen.

To Jarry:

Van Dale: juist. Van Dale is soms bijzonder nonchalant en creatief bij het verzinnen van vertalingen die niet of nauwelijks worden gecontroleerd.

Erfpacht: nope. Een erfpacht is een pacht van (zeer) lange termijn die overerfbaar is. Het is van oorsprong een systeem geweest om de boer en zijn gezin aan de grond te binden en de landeigenaar te verzekeren van blijvende (zij het lage) inkomsten. Een linkje (enigszins oppervlakkig, maar goe, ik moet slapen): http://www.erfpacht.amsterdam.nl/111.htm



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-06-06 08:24:01 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

To Chris:

I think this deserves a forum, but anyway:

It speaks for itself that the way one translates a document, depends on the intended readership. However, I also know from experience that there is hardly ever a one-to-one correspondence between the legalese of different languages. This doesn\'t mean that some things don\'t translate. All things translate. Without exception. However, in some languages one will use a word for a certain concept and half a book (well, maybe that\'s a bit much ^_^) in another.

But you are right in this: a translator should never ever interpret a non-fiction source text. If the source text is ambiguous then the destination text has to be ambiguous. If the source text doesn\'t make sense, then the destination text should not make sense (in cases like that, I *do* always write comments for the original author, if I know him/her.) The destination text must be true to the original. Explanations, and sometimes very detailed ones, are a part of that. Interpretations are not.

Interpretations are indeed the realm of the lawyers. Very useful people, especially if the other party hires them. Preferrably a few. I like that a lot. Gives me a far better chance of winning ^_^.

As for your quote of Peter Newmark: that is really dangerous.

Just a small example in De Standaard last year. A French translator had mistranslated the name of a flower (mentioned in a Dutch recipe) into French. Another Dutch translator was asked to translate this French recipe into Dutch:

http://www.destandaard.be/archief/zoeken/DetailNew.asp?artic...

In this case, the original goudsbloem was translated into bouton d\'or and then translated into boterbloem. Here, it is a blatant mistake. They must have hired a 4 cents a word translator with fuzzy match Trados or something. The consequences were negligeable. But I shiver at the thought this guy would be translating medical stuff.

Writing beautifully is the cherry on the cake of translation. The end, an important end, but not the beginning. Except if you are dealing with literature and poetry, \"oeuf corse\".

I translate Japanese enka and kayoukyoku and that is quite a challenge. For example, the translations of \"Ue wo muite arukou (The Sukiyaki Song)\", one of but a handful of Japanese songs ever to come to the West, may sound good but is also totally wrong. The song isn\'t about Sukiyaki at all. In the English version, they talk about happy days. The original doesn\'t say a thing about happy days. There were very understandable reasons to do that, even if I profoundly disagree with them. This type of interpretation is oftentimes (and from Japanese just about always) a requirement if one wants to end with a song that can be sung. In those cases \"knowing your stuff\" is indeed not as important (or lifethreatening) anymore. But even here, it is always nice if at least part of the meaning of the original is retained in the translation. Sukiyaki song is, in my opninion, really too far-fetched. But hey, it is a song. No too many people will die because of this bad translation/interpretation/rewriting.

to iu koto desu.



Bart B. Van Bockstaele
Canada
Local time: 18:13
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch
PRO pts in pair: 62

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Chris Hopley: In juridische stukken zou ik beslist niet zelf uitleg (al dan niet tussen haakjes) gaan geven: stel dat je het verkeerd begrepen hebt? De vertaler vertaalt, de jurist legt uit. Daar betaal je hem ook voor.
1 hr
  -> Begrijpen? Wat begrijpen? Je moet het alleen maar vertalen! Een oude vertalersgrol.

disagree  xxxjarry: I think Van Dale is wide of the mark in this case as in many others.
3 hrs
  -> Van Dale is often 'creative'. Not in this case, however.
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
ground rent lease / long residential lease


Explanation:
In the UK and US, the term used is "ground rent lease" and the sums paid under the lease are "ground rent". You pay this if you don't own the land your house is built on, for example.

-> "Definition
Ground rent leases are long-term leases, often for 99 years, renewable forever at the option of the tenant. With a ground rent lease, the tenant is in a practical sense the owner of the property, and his interest is usually the more valuable by far. The tenant pays the real property taxes and other real property assessments, and has control over the property. The landlord may enter and terminate the lease only if tenant is in default in payment of the rent. The rights of landlord and tenant may be inherited or assigned."
http://www.peoples-law.org/peoples/md/ltenant/legal info/gro...

-> "Glossary: Ground rent
This is a sum of money paid to the landlord by a leaseholder in respect of a leasehold property."
http://www.moneyworld.co.uk/glossary/gl00636.htm

-> "Erfpacht.
Niet altijd staat een huis op 'eigen' grond, soms is die grond door bijvoorbeeld de gemeente in erfpacht aan de huiseigenaar uitgegeven. In die gevallen moet aan de eigenaar van de grond (de gemeente) een jaarlijks terugkerend bedrag worden betaald. Dit bedrag, de erfpachtcanon, wordt vaak voor een korte periode van drie tot vijf jaar vastgesteld; daarna kan de canon worden herzien. De verkoper zal bij het sluiten van de koopovereenkomst hierover aan de koper informatie moeten verschaffen. De koper moet dus rekening houden met extra (vaak aanzienlijke, jaarlijkse) lasten."
http://www.notaris.nl/tekst/217.htm

'Long residential lease' is also sometimes used.
-> "Ground Rent
Most long residential leases require ground rent to be paid on a particular day whether or not the landlord demands payment."
http://www.housing.dtlr.gov.uk/information/leaseholdreform/f...

IIRC, the term used in farming for "erfpacht" is agricultural tenancy and the "erfpachter" is a "tenant farmer".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-06-05 21:56:47 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

To Bart:

You are right: you have to provide the client with something useful. However, that usually only (!!) means finding the correct translation, even (especially) the correct translation of difficult legal terminology. If you find yourself having to use reems of footnotes, etc., then you are *interpreting* the text rather than translating it.

When we translate legal documents for clients, it\'s usually for one of two reasons: (1) so that it can be kept on file somewhere and never seen again, keeping the bureaucrats happy, or (2) so that the lawyers \"at the other end\" know what\'s going on. In that case, you don\'t need to add explanations because the readers of your translation are more expert in legal terminology than all but the rarest of legal translator.

An argument that you hear often when translating legal stuff from a continental European language to English is that some things don\'t translate because of the different legal systems (different culture). Personally, I think that\'s a bogus argument because there are enough English-speaking countries around the world with the civil-law (Napoleonic) system and, in any case, the civil law of the Napoleonic system has been the subject of study in English language countries for centuries (every student of law in the UK (for example) will get a thorough grounding in *at least* the principles of the Napolenic system.

Anyway, I digress. What I mean is that footnotes, etc. should be used restrivtively by translators and used only to highlight areas of possible misinterpretation or ambiguities in the source text, etc. They shouldn\'t be used to explain what the source text might mean to its user.

The magnificent Peter Newmark summed it up rather well when he wrote: \"The translator\'s defining quality is primarily her ability to write well ... It is not her IT skills, not her correct grammar (elle connait sa langue!) not her knowledge of her own or foreign cultures, i.e. the peculiar features of a people\'s way of life).\"


    Reference: http://www.notaris.nl/tekst/217.htm
    Reference: http://www.housing.dtlr.gov.uk/information/leaseholdreform/f...
Chris Hopley
Netherlands
Local time: 00:13
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 2117

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  xxxjarry: The defintion of leasehold (see David's contribution) came from no less a source than Black's Law Dictionary!!!
1 hr
  -> Well, OK. So leasehold is more than *one* thing. Like so many other words.
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
right of inheritable tenancy


Explanation:
got it from a German law dictionary; in German it's Erbpachtsrecht.....

xxxhartran
Local time: 00:13
PRO pts in pair: 11

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  xxxjarry: Sounds like another Van Dale (see my comment on Bart B. van Bockstaele's suggestion).
1 hr

agree  Bart B. Van Bockstaele: this is indeed what erfpacht means
2 hrs
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