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Mr. (meester in de rechten)+jonkheer

English translation: mr leave it out or footnote it

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Dutch term or phrase:mr (meester in de rechten titel)
English translation:mr leave it out or footnote it
Entered by: Marijke Mayer
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00:21 Jun 15, 2001
Dutch to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents
Dutch term or phrase: Mr. (meester in de rechten)+jonkheer
Hallo, wat doen jullie meestal met vertalingen zoals:
adv. jhr mr X.Y.Z. Huppeldepup
?????

Van Dale geeft, L LM, achter de naam, en Esq. (wat in mijn ogen helemaag geen jonkheer is, maar een briefaanhef) voor jonkheer. Ik gebruik meestal, Master of Laws achter de naam.
Ergo: Lawyer X.Y.Z. Huppeldepup, Master of Laws, Esq.
Marijke Mayer
Netherlands
Local time: 04:04
leave it out or footnote it
Explanation:
Marijke

I frequently come up against this in legal texts. For the benefit of the English reader, I either leave it as mr (ALWAYS with a lower case 'm') and put a footnote saying that it denotes a law degree or I leave it out altogether (on the advice of my Diploma in Translation tutor). By virtue of their position as prosecuting counsel or whatever, it's taken as read that they are qualified. LLB and LLM does not cross boundaries - they are English law degrees, so as you know, you can't use them unless you qualified in law in England.
'Esq.' is sometimes used as a formal 'Mr.' E.g. Male name Esq. OR Mr. Male name but never both together. My Collins English dictionary says that it is typically British usage. You would not, however, put Male name LLB Esq., you would put Mr. Male name LLB. Fun this, isn't it!
Selected response from:

Lucy Simpson
Local time: 03:04
Grading comment
Thank you all very much for your explicit explanations! I really appreciate Willemina's suggestion about the book, which I should purchase. Insofar my choice will be easy that I am doing this translation for the British CEO, however, I often translate for American lawyers, so all your comments were very valid indeed. Thank you!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
naAs a title you can leave it out. Jonkheer is Esquire.
Willemina Hagenauw
nasee detailKen Cox
naleave it out or footnote it
Lucy Simpson


  

Answers


35 mins
leave it out or footnote it


Explanation:
Marijke

I frequently come up against this in legal texts. For the benefit of the English reader, I either leave it as mr (ALWAYS with a lower case 'm') and put a footnote saying that it denotes a law degree or I leave it out altogether (on the advice of my Diploma in Translation tutor). By virtue of their position as prosecuting counsel or whatever, it's taken as read that they are qualified. LLB and LLM does not cross boundaries - they are English law degrees, so as you know, you can't use them unless you qualified in law in England.
'Esq.' is sometimes used as a formal 'Mr.' E.g. Male name Esq. OR Mr. Male name but never both together. My Collins English dictionary says that it is typically British usage. You would not, however, put Male name LLB Esq., you would put Mr. Male name LLB. Fun this, isn't it!


    Native English speaker, 4 years legal experience
Lucy Simpson
Local time: 03:04
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 117
Grading comment
Thank you all very much for your explicit explanations! I really appreciate Willemina's suggestion about the book, which I should purchase. Insofar my choice will be easy that I am doing this translation for the British CEO, however, I often translate for American lawyers, so all your comments were very valid indeed. Thank you!
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44 mins
see detail


Explanation:
For 'meester', I can't do any better than van Dale (excepp to note that L LM is British); for 'jonkheer', you and van Dale are both correct (see e.g. C hambers Dict under 'esquire': 'a squire or shield-bearer... a landed proprieter, a title of dignity next below a knight; a general title of respect when addressing letters'). It all depends on the context (but I doubt that it's often used in Dutch in the last of these senses).

Ken Cox
Local time: 04:04
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 1385
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50 mins
As a title you can leave it out. Jonkheer is Esquire.


Explanation:
Met betrekking tot titels is het interessant het boekje "Righting English that's gone Dutch" te lezen. Hier worden duidelijke regels gegeven over het gebruik van titels. Met betrekking tot titels zoals Mr wordt opgemerkt: "The potential for misinterpretation is sufficient reason for avoiding such Dutch titles in English texts..... A more valid reason is that in English it is not conventional to address academics by the name of their degree - unless the degree is a doctorate" en "Remember that in English the only titles used are Professor (or its abbreviation Prof.) and Dr. - never used together for one person".

Ik hoop dat dit nuttig voor je is.


    Borrough-Boenisch, Righting English that's gone Dutch
Willemina Hagenauw
Local time: 03:04
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch
PRO pts in pair: 310
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