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daderprofiel

English translation: offender's profile

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Dutch term or phrase:daderprofiel
English translation:offender's profile
Entered by: Jacques Wolse
Options:
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18:20 Jan 28, 2002
Dutch to English translations [PRO]
Dutch term or phrase: daderprofiel
...een daderprofiel opstellen...
Jacques Wolse
Local time: 00:23
offender's profile
Explanation:
I cannot speak for the rest of the english speaking world, but in the UK this would be it.

Risking Ethical Insolvency: A Survey of Trends in Criminal ...
... are partially shared with biological relatives, which means an offender's profile
can not be collected without consequentially obtaining incomplete information ...
www.aslme.org/pub_jlme/28.3h.html

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Note added at 2002-01-28 18:35:12 (GMT)
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Compile an offender\'s profile.

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Note added at 2002-01-28 19:25:44 (GMT)
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Nothing in the asker\'s text indicates a criminal or criminal act (misdadiger) (misdaad), however if it did, offender would still be correct, it is a recognised word for a criminal in the context of profile compilation. In fact in the whole picture, the word criminal is very rarely used. A prison is full of criminals, but courts are full of offenders, accused, defendants, etc. but they are rarely referred to as criminals only usually as a generalisation in say statistics for example.

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Note added at 2002-01-28 19:41:55 (GMT)
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I would argue, if the \"dader\" was a suspect, the words \"de verdachte\" would have been used, and not \"dader\"

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Note added at 2002-01-28 20:20:37 (GMT)
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Crime Reduction Toolkits: Offender Profile
Crime Reduction Toolkits. Communities Against Drugs. ... Main ... Toolkit
Index Offender Profile. Recent ...
www.crimereduction.gov.uk/toolkits/dr020302.htm

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Note added at 2002-01-28 20:23:39 (GMT)
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The above \"gov.uk\" indicates that comes from a British Government source. I did say I was speaking as a UK resident-)).

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Note added at 2002-01-28 20:23:49 (GMT)
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The above \"gov.uk\" indicates that comes from a British Government source. I did say I was speaking as a UK resident-)).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-01-28 20:33:09 (GMT)
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Thank you Wout for reminding me that I am not a Dutchman, however I was in Holland for 16 years, long enough to know that a \"dader\" in english would be an offender, culprit, etc. etc. Criminal profile would not be used in the UK unless it had already been proved. As I have said, you have got to be absolutely certain of your facts, and it has to be proven that an individual has commited a criminal act before it is legally safe to call them a criminal.
Selected response from:

Dave Greatrix
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:23
Grading comment
Judging by the reponse this one proved to be tricky!
I think your translation fits the bill.
Thanks for your help and explanation.
Jacques
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +3offender's profile
Dave Greatrix
4 +2to formulate a perpetrator's profile
Evert DELOOF-SYS
5When opening the 'Propose an answer' windowxxxjarry
4establish a criminal's profile
Ineke Hardy
4 -1Criminal profile
Wouter van Kampen
3 -1profileNicolo
4 -3Compile / draw up a suspect's profilexxxjarry


  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
to formulate a perpetrator's profile


Explanation:
is one way of saying it.

Ref.:

... Perpetrator's Profile: Sex: Male Female Not Sure. Age: Adult
Teen Child Not Sure. Voice: Normal
Muffled Slurred. ...

www.moruralwater.org/Mrwadocstodownload2.rtf

and


... to crime scene details and then would formulate a profile of the type of person ... crime
scene evidence of a perpetrator's personality. 20 This procedure proved ...
law.wustl.edu/Journal/54/Ingram_.pdf

Evert DELOOF-SYS
Belgium
Local time: 00:23
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch, Native in FlemishFlemish
PRO pts in pair: 1278

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Wouter van Kampen: However, dader > misdadiger > criminal . Usually it is not only about breaking the law (perpetrator) but about someone who has committed a (severe) crime. I would therefor prefer "criminal profile"
45 mins

agree  Koos Vanderwilt: Een dader is een perpetrator; een verdachte een suspect. Vertalen wat er staat
2 hrs

neutral  xxxjarry: The asker specifically requested explanations to be made in Dutch
15 hrs
  -> en wil hij daar nog een zakje friet bij :)? Jacques Wolse vertaalt uit het Engels naar het Nederlands en omgekeerd ...Waar staat dit trouwens?
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8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +3
offender's profile


Explanation:
I cannot speak for the rest of the english speaking world, but in the UK this would be it.

Risking Ethical Insolvency: A Survey of Trends in Criminal ...
... are partially shared with biological relatives, which means an offender's profile
can not be collected without consequentially obtaining incomplete information ...
www.aslme.org/pub_jlme/28.3h.html

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-01-28 18:35:12 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Compile an offender\'s profile.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-01-28 19:25:44 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Nothing in the asker\'s text indicates a criminal or criminal act (misdadiger) (misdaad), however if it did, offender would still be correct, it is a recognised word for a criminal in the context of profile compilation. In fact in the whole picture, the word criminal is very rarely used. A prison is full of criminals, but courts are full of offenders, accused, defendants, etc. but they are rarely referred to as criminals only usually as a generalisation in say statistics for example.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-01-28 19:41:55 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I would argue, if the \"dader\" was a suspect, the words \"de verdachte\" would have been used, and not \"dader\"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-01-28 20:20:37 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Crime Reduction Toolkits: Offender Profile
Crime Reduction Toolkits. Communities Against Drugs. ... Main ... Toolkit
Index Offender Profile. Recent ...
www.crimereduction.gov.uk/toolkits/dr020302.htm

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-01-28 20:23:39 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The above \"gov.uk\" indicates that comes from a British Government source. I did say I was speaking as a UK resident-)).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-01-28 20:23:49 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The above \"gov.uk\" indicates that comes from a British Government source. I did say I was speaking as a UK resident-)).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-01-28 20:33:09 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Thank you Wout for reminding me that I am not a Dutchman, however I was in Holland for 16 years, long enough to know that a \"dader\" in english would be an offender, culprit, etc. etc. Criminal profile would not be used in the UK unless it had already been proved. As I have said, you have got to be absolutely certain of your facts, and it has to be proven that an individual has commited a criminal act before it is legally safe to call them a criminal.

Dave Greatrix
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:23
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 1747
Grading comment
Judging by the reponse this one proved to be tricky!
I think your translation fits the bill.
Thanks for your help and explanation.
Jacques

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  edlih_be: spot on!
26 mins
  -> Cheers, Edlih!

agree  Marijke Mayer: You beat me to it, Dave! Juridisch Lexicon by Van den End's
40 mins
  -> Thank You, Madam!

disagree  Wouter van Kampen: It is about criminals and not merely offenders.
45 mins
  -> Please point me to the part of the text that refers to a criminal act, I must be missing something.

agree  Massimo Lencioni
1 hr
  -> Thank you both!

agree  Lucy Simpson: Wout, in police work we call them 'offenders' even if they are criminals.
15 hrs
  -> Cheers, Lucy!

neutral  xxxjarry: The asker specifically requested comments to be made in Dutch
15 hrs
  -> Not me he didn't! Where did you see that, Jarry?
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19 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
establish a criminal's profile


Explanation:
see Google

Ineke Hardy
Netherlands
Local time: 00:23
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch
PRO pts in pair: 59

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Dave Greatrix: A "dader" does not have to be a criminal. It could be a naughty child, or somebody that has spilt tea on grannie's best table cloth:o-))
19 mins
  -> True. But you would hardly go through the trouble of putting together a profile of a tea-spiller, would you. The context here suggests "criminal"

agree  Wouter van Kampen: Indeed
22 mins

neutral  xxxjarry: The asker specifically requested explanations to be made in Dutch
15 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -3
Compile / draw up a suspect's profile


Explanation:
Als de dader de vermoedelijke dader is -en dat lijkt waarschijnlijk in dit geval want anders zie ik het nut van een profiel niet - dan zou de vertaling als boven dienen te zijn.

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Note added at 2002-01-28 20:24:13 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Dader: offender/perpetrator/culprit geeft aan dat iemand al berecht / schuldig bevonden is. In Zuid Afrika en andere landen waar de grondwet zoiets verbiedt, wordt dit woord niet gebruikt als men het heeft over het profiel van de mogelijke dader. Zo iemand heet een verdachte (suspect) en van zo\'n verdachte wordt een profiel opgesteld.

xxxjarry
South Africa
Local time: 01:23
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 3855

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Christopher Smith: Ik ben het helemaal met je eens, Jarry. We praten hier gewoonlijk van 'a suspect profile' oftewel 'profile of the suspect' aangezien het daarna voor het rechthof is om te beslissen of de 'suspect' wel of niet de dader is.
10 mins

disagree  Wouter van Kampen: In een rechtstaat laat de politie (bij ernstige misdrijven) eerst een daderprofiel opstellen door een onafhankelijke deskundige en zoekt daarna naar mogelijke verdachten en/of vergelijkt of het gedrag van mogelijke verdachten EVENTUEEL beantwoordt aan het
12 mins

disagree  Dave Greatrix: The "dader" by definition can not be a suspect. It is common for profiles to made of offenders after imprisonment, for e.g. rehabilitation.
15 mins
  -> The asker requested comments to be made in Dutch.

disagree  Massimo Lencioni: het daderprofiel is niet afgestemd op eenconcrete verdachte, maar is een schets waaraan eventuele verdachten waarschijnlijk mee zullen corresponderen
38 mins

disagree  Lucy Simpson: A 'verdachte' is a suspect until he gets charged, when he becomes the accused. We are talking here about someone who has committed an offence (whether the police know who they are or not), which makes them an 'offender'.
14 hrs
  -> The asker specifically requested comments to be made in Dutch
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
Criminal profile


Explanation:
Een daderprofiel is niet het profiel van een bepaald persoon die de wet heeft overtreden, noch is het het profiel van een verdachte.

Zowel Jarry als David maken hier een denkfout (ik redeneer op basis van mijn kennis over en vanuit de Nederlandse rechtstaat!).

Een daderprofiel is een abstract profiel met psychologische kenmerken van een onbekende dader van het misdrijf. We praten over een ernstig misdrijf en niet alleen maar over het overtreden van de wet. Het opstellen van een daderprofiel is een methode waarnaar de politie niet zo snel grijpt omdat het gecompliceerd is en als bewijs in een rechtzaak niet is hard te maken. Men gaat op basis van een daderprofiel op zoek naar mogelijke verdachten. Vervolgens zal er dan hetzij een bekentenis hetzij hard bewijs moeten komen. Zoniet dan gaat de verdachte in Nederland vrijuit. De Juridische realiteit in het Buitenland is mogelijk anders.

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Note added at 2002-01-28 20:50:00 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Een suspect is een vermoedelijke dader oftewel verdachte. Dat ben ik met je eens. Ik ga ervan uit (maar ben natuurlijk geen native speaker) dat een suspect altijd een concrete persoon is (Jantje, Pietje, Marietje etc.). De dader in een daderprofiel is echter een abstracte persoon. De dader is hier niet meer dan een opsomming van beschrijvende kenmerken. Ik vermoed overigens ook een verschil tussen Brits Engels (Offender as short form of \"Criminal Offender\") en Amerikaans./Canadees Engels (Criminal) maar daar kan ik verder te weinig van zeggen. Wellicht moeten we Ineke Hardy nog eens vragen of ze daar haar licht over kan laten schijnen.

Wouter van Kampen
Thailand
Local time: 06:23
Native speaker of: Dutch
PRO pts in pair: 108

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Dave Greatrix: The "dader" may have caused a traffic accident, but that would not make him a criminal. However he would still be an offender, having committed an offence. Only the author can clarify.
12 mins
  -> Please David. "Dader~profiel" The connotation here is crime. I know becaue I am Dutch. You do not seem to understand. You will however be forgiven since you are not a Dutchman. ;-)

neutral  xxxjarry: Met andere woorden, het profiel is bedoeld om de VERMOEDELIJKE dader op te sporen. Zo iemand heet toch een "suspect" in het Engels. Laten we daar niet al te moeilijk over doen.
45 mins
  -> Hej Jarry mijn reactie is te lang. Zie daarom "Note added at 2002-01-28 20:50:00 (GMT)

agree  Tina Vonhof: I agree with the translation (commonly used in North America) and with the rationale.
8 hrs

disagree  Lucy Simpson: 'Criminal' in police work tends to be used in phrases, like 'criminal investigation service', 'criminal matters', but rarely (if ever) in official business do we talk of 'criminals'. They are offenders/suspects/persons concerned, depending on context.
14 hrs
  -> I assume "we" stands for "we British". Please note the difference between British and American/Canadian English. Official business? Compiling a criminal profile is police work, indeed. Not for lawyers.
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13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
profile


Explanation:
Working in this area has shown me that the rest of the text will point out the nature of the criminal. So profile should be more than enough

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-01-29 11:03:46 (GMT)
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In de profiel schetsen van verdachten dient enkel verwezen te worden naar het profiel, daar de rest van de tekst zelf verklarend is, of toch in de meeste gevallen

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-01-29 11:04:15 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In de profiel schetsen van verdachten dient enkel verwezen te worden naar het profiel, daar de rest van de tekst zelf verklarend is, of toch in de meeste gevallen

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-01-29 11:50:06 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Derhalve zou profile meer dan voldoende moeten zijn gezien ook in andere profielen de inhoud duidelijk maakt over welk profiel het zich hier handelt.

Nicolo
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:23
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in DutchDutch
PRO pts in pair: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Lucy Simpson: I would tend to agree with you there. Much of what we do in police work takes its lead from the context, so 'profile' may well suffice.
2 hrs

neutral  xxxjarry: The asker specifically requested explanations to be made in Dutch.
3 hrs

disagree  Wouter van Kampen: Beste Lucy, moeten wij hier nu uit begrijpen dat je bij de politie werkt? De term "profile" is niet specifiek genoeg aangezien er ook nog profielen van veroordeelden bestaan. Die hebben betrekking op concrete personen. Een daderprofiel niet.
4 hrs
  -> een daderprofiel heeft ook betrekking op een concreet persoon alleen is deze persoon op het moment van opstelling nog een onbekende

disagree  Dave Greatrix: Jarry, you're repeating yourself:o))
4 hrs
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20 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
When opening the 'Propose an answer' window


Explanation:
the following text appeared in a bold blue font under explanation:
"The asker requested explanations in: Dutch." It was really hard to miss.

David, I did not repeat myself. I only pointed out this request once to individual answerers who used English instead of Dutch. Be that as it may, congratulations on providing what seems to be the right answer!

Als er een pakje friet bij zou kunnen zijn dan zou ik de eerste zijn die daarom zou vragen, zeker met al die Belgen in ons midden!

xxxjarry
South Africa
Local time: 01:23
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 3855
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