to make sure one's friend

Chinese translation: 虚心说服邻人

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:to make sure one's friend
Chinese translation:虚心说服邻人
Entered by: Wenjer Leuschel (X)

10:03 Jul 29, 2007
English to Chinese translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature / Proverbs
English term or phrase: to make sure one's friend
The context:
This is the passage of Proverbs 6:1-5. It goes as follows.

1 My son, if thou be surety for thy friend, if thou hast stricken thy hand with a stranger,
2 Thou art snared with the words of thy mouth, thou art taken with the words of thy mouth.
3 Do this now, my son, and deliver thyself, when thou art come into the hand of thy friend; {go, humble thyself, and make sure thy friend}.
4 Give not sleep to thine eyes, nor slumber to thine eyelids.
5 Deliver thyself as a roe from the hand of the hunter, and as a bird from the hand of the fowler.

The question: to make one's friend
The Chinese version 和合本 says for this part "你要自卑,去懇求你的朋友." Honestly, it's beyond my Chinese. I don't understand a character at all. I asked the Spanish translators at http://www.proz.com/kudoz/2055685, but still no definite answer to this riddle. The whole passage in Chinese goes like the following.

1 我兒,你若為朋友作保,替外人擊掌,
2 你就被口中的話語纏住,被嘴裡的言語捉住。
3 我兒,你既落在朋友手中,就當這樣行才可救自己:你要自卑,去懇求你的朋友。
4 不要容你的眼睛睡覺;不要容你的眼皮打盹。
5 要救自己,如鹿脫離獵戶的手,如鳥脫離捕鳥人的手。

Could any colleague solve the riddle for me? Thanks in advance!
Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Taiwan
Local time: 00:16
屈就於自己的朋友(以便確認)
Explanation:
由上下文看來,這朋友已經不可靠,若是保持距離不肯屈就,無疑連確認的機會都沒有了。不知此解是否合適? 

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Note added at 3 hrs (2007-07-29 13:06:24 GMT)
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看到兩位的筆談十分精彩,何嘗有別人置喙之要?
Yes, I do not mind if you award Kudoz to someone else who contributes much effort to our issue in concern.
感謝Proz提供這麼有趣的以文會友的好地方!
很巧的是,自去年以來,我在工作之餘有幸讀到一本相當不錯的書,談到聖經中有些後人穿鑿附會之處,把最重要的精神給忽略掉了,見樹不見林的非常可惜。以致於基督之友必需以其他方式再度傳遞真實訊息給世人(當然非吾輩尚在三界五行中者)。
對這句英文的解釋,我想二位所見極是,很是佩服。
Selected response from:

Nai-Ching Ting
Local time: 11:16
Grading comment
Thank you very much for the pointer to a possible interpretation!
2 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +1屈就於自己的朋友(以便確認)
Nai-Ching Ting


Discussion entries: 18





  

Answers


40 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
屈就於自己的朋友(以便確認)


Explanation:
由上下文看來,這朋友已經不可靠,若是保持距離不肯屈就,無疑連確認的機會都沒有了。不知此解是否合適? 

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2007-07-29 13:06:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

看到兩位的筆談十分精彩,何嘗有別人置喙之要?
Yes, I do not mind if you award Kudoz to someone else who contributes much effort to our issue in concern.
感謝Proz提供這麼有趣的以文會友的好地方!
很巧的是,自去年以來,我在工作之餘有幸讀到一本相當不錯的書,談到聖經中有些後人穿鑿附會之處,把最重要的精神給忽略掉了,見樹不見林的非常可惜。以致於基督之友必需以其他方式再度傳遞真實訊息給世人(當然非吾輩尚在三界五行中者)。
對這句英文的解釋,我想二位所見極是,很是佩服。

Nai-Ching Ting
Local time: 11:16
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in ChineseChinese
PRO pts in category: 8
Grading comment
Thank you very much for the pointer to a possible interpretation!
Notes to answerer
Asker: 謝謝你!老實說,我到現在還是一頭霧水,因為我不是那種狂熱的信徒,把聖書中的所有言語都當真還信奉的人。尤其這種經過翻譯的東西,我們都是翻譯人,很清楚能出的差錯有多少,更別說主觀的意識(基於自身的利益)很容易造成翻譯的偏差。單單在網上可以找到的英文版本就有十個,其中 Bible in Basic English 的譯文是 "go without waiting, and make a strong request to your neighbour"。這個譯法就是我在西班牙文->英文 KudoZ 裡詢問的內容。我個人認為這種譯法應該是比較合理的,因為網上查得到的德文翻譯版本有三種,統統是比較接近這個譯法的意思,找到的西班牙文版本也有一種是接近這個意思的。不過,置人於不利地位的不會是朋友,如果還不能自我反省,當然也無須再與他做確定,陷於不利地位者必須自己想辦法解決問題就是。

Asker: Thank you for your understanding! It depends only on Shirley's decision about whether or not to put her suggestion as an answer. I appreciate very much the help in clarifying the understanding and interpretation of this piece of the Bible from both of you. The dignity being a human being among other human beings lies in the determination not to bend in front of undue power plays. 如果遇到強權就放棄主張自己的權利,沒有人會為那樣的人主張權利的,也沒有人會尊敬那樣的人。Just like Salomon advised, one shall stand and walk upright and make one's way clear. If there are consequences for a surety or hand-striking to bear, just figure out the damage, confine the damage and fight for whatever is entitled to oneself. Stand and walk upright, never sneak around --- that was what Salomon told his people, as what I've been trying to understand in his legacy.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Danbing HE
1 day 2 hrs
  -> Thank you!
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