carro

Croatian translation: kar (carro)

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:carro
Croatian translation:kar (carro)
Entered by: Darko Kolega

05:40 May 6, 2010
English to Croatian translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - History / help with sentencte
English term or phrase: carro
I'm translating a text about Dubrovnik from English to Catalan. The original was written in Croat.
I have problems with one sentence. Maybe it's a mistranslation from Croat. Could you tell me what "carros" refers to?
__
From 1570 till 1585 the Republic had 180 to 200 ships ***from 10 to 1.100 carros and the total displacement of 36.000 carros***.

I don't speak Croat.

Thanks
Lurdes Pons
Spain
Local time: 12:40
kar (carro)
Explanation:
stara jedinica za obujam; oko 2000 l, koristila se za
a) sol
b) obujam korisnog brodskog prostora

izvor: Hrvatski enciklopedijski rječnik Novi Liber

English explanation: old capacity (size, volume) measurement for aprox. 2000 litres; used for:
a) salt
b) capacity of usable cargo space (area) of ship

reference: Croatian Encyclopedian Dictionary, Novi Liber, 2002
Selected response from:

Darko Kolega
Croatia
Local time: 12:40
Grading comment
Thank you!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +2kar (carro)
Darko Kolega
5ton
drazenborcic
4 +1carro
Mira Stepanovic
2dubrovačka "kara" (Dubrovnik "cart")
bonafide1313
Summary of reference entries provided
dubrovačka "kara"
bonafide1313

Discussion entries: 7





  

Answers


33 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
ton


Explanation:
1 carro equals 1.5 tons. Carro is actually a carriage and the unit was used for wheat and cereals, so it can be transformed into bushels, but only if one knows what the cargo content was (specific weight of various cereals can differ significantly). Multiplying by 1.5 and expressing the load in tons is probably the best practice.

I'll try to find a reference and post it later.

drazenborcic
Local time: 12:40
Native speaker of: Croatian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Darko Kolega: bez reference mi zvuči prilično neuvjerljivo i komplicirano; mada jadni onda isu imali bolje mjerne instrumente
19 mins
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51 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
kar (carro)


Explanation:
stara jedinica za obujam; oko 2000 l, koristila se za
a) sol
b) obujam korisnog brodskog prostora

izvor: Hrvatski enciklopedijski rječnik Novi Liber

English explanation: old capacity (size, volume) measurement for aprox. 2000 litres; used for:
a) salt
b) capacity of usable cargo space (area) of ship

reference: Croatian Encyclopedian Dictionary, Novi Liber, 2002

Darko Kolega
Croatia
Local time: 12:40
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in CroatianCroatian
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thank you!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  bonafide1313: koliko je mogla ponit jedna kara biće, ili jedan kar, eheheh antica misura di volume, usata con valore diverso in varie regioni italiane; corrisponde alla capacità di un carro: due carra di fieno ... i kod talijana slično
10 mins
  -> a da nije karijola? ihihihi

agree  alz: ancora 20 anni indietro era usuale riferirsi al peso di 10 tonnellate come ad un vagone. Dunque un carro a traino del '500 divento' (crebbe) un carro ferroviario :-)
15 hrs
  -> grazie + buon giorno
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
dubrovačka "kara" (Dubrovnik "cart")


Explanation:

.... my guess is that, if the text is written in Croatian, the figure of 36000 might refer to specific "Dubrovnik carts", a unit of weight of approx. 2/3 of a ton ...

bonafide1313
Croatia
Local time: 12:40
Native speaker of: Native in CroatianCroatian
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33 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
carro


Explanation:
It is a medieval unit of measure - deadweight tonnage (or deadweight carrying capacity) for ships:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org....
Converting to deadweight tonnage measures we may call the carro equal ...
It is explained here:
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2593003
unfortunately it is not free. :(

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=ETF&r...
Mjera carro inače se rabi za mjerenje žita, te 1 carro teži 1,5 tonu...
hrcak.srce.hr/file/29014

Hope this helps.

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Note added at 53 mins (2010-05-06 06:34:09 GMT)
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Sorry, the link is not working, please paste it into your browser;
The sentence in Croatian means:
The measure carro is used for weighing wheat where 1 carro weighs 1.5 tons.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2010-05-06 07:14:37 GMT)
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Here is an explanation in Italian, might be helpful to you:
http://lnx.collesalario.it/agerola/index.php?option=com_cont...
Carro: Misura utilizzata per stimare le dimensioni di una nave o di un carico navale, nel Regno delle due Sicilie valeva 36 tomoli (pari a circa 1990 litri).
It comes under ANTICHE UNITA’ DI MISURA E MONETE, UNITA’ DI VOLUME i.e. units of volume.

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Note added at 3 hrs (2010-05-06 08:42:46 GMT)
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BTW, the definition of 'carro' means:
Measure used to estimate the dimensions of a ship or the ship's deadweight in the Kingdom of The Two Sicilies and it weighted 36 tomolos ( http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomolo ) (equal to approximately 1990 litres).

Mira Stepanovic
Serbia
Local time: 12:40
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in Serbo-CroatSerbo-Croat

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Darko Kolega: to je zastarjela mjera za obujam (ne prvenstveno za težinu), jer je u pitanju iskoristivi prostor teretnog broda; bar mi tako kažu enciklopedije; pogotovo ako je tema o prošlosti, onda treba uzeti u obzir ondašnju mjeru, a ne današnju
21 mins
  -> Hvala, u datom kontekstu se govori o nosivosti brodova, a to se konvertuje u tone, v. linkove, bitno je da je naziv te mere 'carro' za šta sam našla potvrde, ovde se traži prevod, zar ne?

agree  alz: the official language of trade (or better: lingua franca) in Adriatic and Ionian area from middle age up to the end of XIX century was Italian (Venetian). I would leave it as "carro" too.
1 day 1 hr
  -> Thanks! I had that in mind when posting my answer, that is why I gave the reference in Italian showing the term and its meaning in its original language. :)
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Reference comments


44 mins
Reference: dubrovačka "kara"

Reference information:
http://silvanaurbs.blog.hr/arhiva-2006-07.html

1568.
- utemeljen organ petorice za poslove 'pomorskog osiguranja', ordo super assicuratoribus, jedan od prvih u svijetu, a sigurno prvi na mediteranu.

- u dubrovačkom brodogradilištu sagrađen jedrenjak nosivosti 1100 kara (1 kara=2/3 današnje brodske tone).

1580. - 1600.

u ovom razdoblju povećan je broj trgovačkih brodova veće nosivosti. republika posjeduje između 170 i 200 brodova (57 karaka, 72 galeona i 32 nave (podaci iz 1584.), koji jedre po svim morima svijeta uz mnoštvo manjih za obalnu plovidbu.
podaci govore o ukupnoj nosivosti od 36 tisuća 'kara' (kola); 5 tisuća pomoraca; čiste dobiti brodovlasnicima koja varira između 180 i 200 tisuća dukata godišnje. to je ujedno najveći opseg trgovačke moranarice.

.... it says here that the total displacement of dubrovnik fleet was 36000 "kara" (carts) ... and they mention that " 1 kara" is 2/3 of a modern ton...

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Note added at 51 mins (2010-05-06 06:32:19 GMT)
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http://www.shipmodelling.com/hrvatski/html/povijest.htm

Dubrovačka trgovačka mornarica 1599. imala je 23720 kara nosivosti (kar je mjera za brodsku, nosivost, dosta veća od današnje tone).

.... on the other hand this source speaks of 23720 "kars", claiming that kar is pretty above the ton....

bonafide1313
Croatia
Native speaker of: Native in CroatianCroatian

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
neutral  Darko Kolega: zato što je oko 2000 l, pa je iznad tone; nosivosti 1100 kara (koji je onda rod? m/f?)-> dubrovački kar??; glavno da se okriće na gradelama, pa nek' se zove kako god hoće; mislite na rošpu? ili osti? rošpa je ona najružnija-najbrodetskija neman....
14 mins
  -> astija, i to me pita dalmoš, eheheh... pa zna se da svaka vala ima svoj rod, a o nazivima riba da ne pričam; ili ostija? ili oštija? nikad dobro ne čujem kad odem na more :)
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