unredeemed Greek communities

French translation: communautés grecques non-rachetées

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:unredeemed Greek communities
French translation:communautés grecques non-rachetées
Entered by: B D Finch

09:48 Dec 15, 2018
English to French translations [PRO]
History / Post Première Guerre mondiale
English term or phrase: unredeemed Greek communities
Dans le contexte de l'après Première Guerre mondiale:
"The defeat of the Ottoman Turks presented Greece with a new chance to realize the nation’s 'Great Idea', the political programme that promoted the expansion of the Greek state so as to include all communities considered Greek in the Ottoman Empire. As a result, Greece led a military campaign into Anatolia so as to liberate the ‘unredeemed Greek communities’"

J'ai trouvé l'expression quasi telle quelle dans cet article:
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/greece/1925-10-01/un...
et dans des livres (google books) qui traitent bien de cette période.

Je penche fortement pour "communautés grecques irrédentistes", il me semble que dans ce terme, qui vient de l'italien irredento (= non libéré, non racheté) on retrouve le sens d'unredeemed, mais le terme "irredentism" existe en anglais... d'où mon doute.

Qu'en pensez-vous?
Alexandra Charpentier
Belgium
Local time: 16:26
communautés grecques non-rachetées
Explanation:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrédentisme

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irredentism
Irredentism is any political or popular movement that seeks to claim/reclaim and occupy a land that the movement's members consider to be a "lost" (or "unredeemed") territory from their nation's past. ... Irredentism may operate as a device for a government to redirect their citizens' discontent against outsiders.

It is possible that the author avoided the term "irredentism" because of its use by Italian and other fascisms. However, it seems more likely that the reason was purely a question of syntax. The irredentists would be the redeemers, not the redeemeed, unless the communities in question were, themselves, struggling to become part of Greece. However, even then, the term "unredeemed" doesn't say that the communities that were unredeemed were irridentist. So, the text only tells us that the Greek state was irredentist.

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Note added at 3 hrs (2018-12-15 13:11:38 GMT)
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@Asker
"Unredeemed" sounds odd to my English ears, as I associate the term more with what religious people might think about those (such as myself) who aren't saved by the Word. ;)
Selected response from:

B D Finch
France
Local time: 16:26
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4communautés grecques non-rachetées
B D Finch


Discussion entries: 10





  

Answers


2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
communautés grecques non-rachetées


Explanation:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrédentisme

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irredentism
Irredentism is any political or popular movement that seeks to claim/reclaim and occupy a land that the movement's members consider to be a "lost" (or "unredeemed") territory from their nation's past. ... Irredentism may operate as a device for a government to redirect their citizens' discontent against outsiders.

It is possible that the author avoided the term "irredentism" because of its use by Italian and other fascisms. However, it seems more likely that the reason was purely a question of syntax. The irredentists would be the redeemers, not the redeemeed, unless the communities in question were, themselves, struggling to become part of Greece. However, even then, the term "unredeemed" doesn't say that the communities that were unredeemed were irridentist. So, the text only tells us that the Greek state was irredentist.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2018-12-15 13:11:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

@Asker
"Unredeemed" sounds odd to my English ears, as I associate the term more with what religious people might think about those (such as myself) who aren't saved by the Word. ;)

B D Finch
France
Local time: 16:26
Meets criteria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: J'ai effectivement trouvé quelques occurrences dans 2-3 articles parlant de Grecs "non-rachetés" dans ce contexte. "Si l’on adopte une position en accord avec l’idéologie nationale dominante, la question paraît simple : ceux qui vivent dans des territoires où l’État grec était tenu pour État ancestral (à savoir l’Empire ottoman) étaient « non-rachetés » ; ceux qui vivaient ailleurs faisaient partie de la diaspora. " Ça sonne bizarre à mon oreille francophone, pour tout dire, mais j'imagine que c'est en effet plus proche du sens du texte source.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  GILOU: non-rachetées, c'est incorrect en français un tiret entre un nom et un verbe. Désolé, c'est un verbe et quand bien même ça serait un adjectif, ça ne changerait pas le problème....
10 mins
  -> It's an adjective, not a verb.
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