whose flowery thickets cells enfold

French translation: information

16:35 Jul 30, 2007
English to French translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature
English term or phrase: whose flowery thickets cells enfold
Extrait d'un poème chinois

Within this convent old
By the clear dawn
Tall woods are lit with earliest rays.
Lo here and there a pathway strays
On to a hidden lawn
Whose flowery thickets cells enfold.
Stéphanie Soudais
France
Local time: 08:45
French translation:information
Explanation:
There is a difference between flowering thickets (thickets that are flowering) and flowery thickets (thickets that resemble flowers). As far as I know, there isn’t an equivalent adj. for flowery in French. The problem is if one uses “en fleur” or the pp. adj. “fleuri” to describe the thicket, it becomes clear that the thicket has flowers. But that isn’t what the original says. While we can well imagine these cells nestled in a bouquet of flowers, it could be that the cells represent the flowers and the thickets represent the greenery of a bouquet so I’m not comfortable glossing over the distinction. Then again, this was translated from the Chinese and the distinction may not really be there.
In terms of the construction of the sentence, I do agree with FX Fraipont.

Whose thickets, which resemble flowers, envelope/embrace(hug) the exterior walls of the buildings the nuns live in.

Dont les fourrés fleuris enveloppent/étreignent les celles/cellules.

enfold - to envelope or to embrace (condensed from Webster’s)

thicket {(assumed) ME thikket, fr. OE thiccet, fr. thicce [=] thick} 1 : a dense growth of shrubbery or small trees : COPPICE 2 : something resembling a thicket in density or impenetrability : TANGLE (Webster’s)

coppice {MF copeiz, fr. couper [=] to cut} 1 : a thicket, grove, or growth of small trees

cell {ME, fr. OE, religious house and OF celle [=] hermit’s cell, fr. L cella [=] small room; akin to L celare [=] to conceal} 1 : a small religious house dependent on a monastery or convent 2 a : a one-room dwelling occupied by a solitary person (as a hermit) b: a single room ( as in a convent or prison) usu. for one person (Webster’s)

2. celle XIIIe s., G., « cellule de moine » ; lat. cella, chambre, repris sous la forme lat. par l’archéologie au XVIIIe s. (Larousse Dictionnaire d’étymologie)

Wikipédia – La Celle-en-Morvan
La « celle » est un terme médiéval désignant la cellule d’un ermite. L’une des plus anciennes mentions de la Celle-en-Morvan évoque une « celle sancti mederici » : celle de Saint Merry, né au VIIe siècle dans une noble famille éduenne, abbé de l’abbaye de Saint-Martin d’Autun qui se retira comme ermite, mais qu’on vint rechercher ; il partit pour Paris où il mourut dans une grande réputation de sainteté. Il donna son nom à une paroisse de Paris. Sa retraite en Morvan devait se trouver à proximité de l’église de la Celle, au flanc de la montagne, où se trouve une « fontaine Saint Merry », recherchée autrefois pour accorder la fécondité aux femmes stériles.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Celle-en-Morvan

thicket – fourré nm (Larousse)
coppice – taillis nm (Hachette & Larousse)

Caché derrière de magnifiques **fourrés fleuris,** un parc animalier comprenant divers animaux domestiques:
http://www.mas-des-oliviers.com/parc.htm


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 days (2007-08-14 13:14:45 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Merci, Stéphanie :-)
Selected response from:

Claire Chapman
Local time: 02:45
Grading comment
Merci à tous, j'opte pour "cells" en référence aux "cellules" du couvent. J'aimerais partager les points, mais...
2 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4dont les touffes de fleurs enserrent les cellules
FX Fraipont
3 +1sur une pelouse...que les carres de bosquets fleuris dissimulent
Denali
3information
Claire Chapman
2cellules
Emma Paulay


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


46 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
cellules


Explanation:
Est-ce les cellules du couvent? - les chambres des religieuses en somme? Ce serait donc les bosquets de fleurs de la pelouse du jardin qui entourent les cellules du couvent.

Emma Paulay
France
Local time: 08:45
Native speaker of: English
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
sur une pelouse...que les carres de bosquets fleuris dissimulent


Explanation:
OU...entouree/choyee par des carres de bosquets fleuris
cellules: les bosquets fleuris forment comme des "cellules", soit des carres, des divisions.
Il faudrait consulter un doc. de jardinage pour obtenir un meilleur terme.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2007-07-30 17:50:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

..."des" carres de bosquets...

Denali
Local time: 02:45
Native speaker of: French
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: "Parcelles" alors?


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  wolmix: oui, ce sont des "carrés" de verdure
19 hrs
  -> une 'cellule" transmet l'idee d'une figure geometrique bien precise (carre, rectang.) pas une parcelle (nimporte q. forme)
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
dont les touffes de fleurs enserrent les cellules


Explanation:
ici et là un sentier s'égare
sur un gazon caché
dont les touffes de fleurs enserrent les cellules

first meaning of cell: a small room, as in a convent or prison.

je penche plutôt pour les cellules du couvent


FX Fraipont
Belgium
Local time: 08:45
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 106
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12 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
information


Explanation:
There is a difference between flowering thickets (thickets that are flowering) and flowery thickets (thickets that resemble flowers). As far as I know, there isn’t an equivalent adj. for flowery in French. The problem is if one uses “en fleur” or the pp. adj. “fleuri” to describe the thicket, it becomes clear that the thicket has flowers. But that isn’t what the original says. While we can well imagine these cells nestled in a bouquet of flowers, it could be that the cells represent the flowers and the thickets represent the greenery of a bouquet so I’m not comfortable glossing over the distinction. Then again, this was translated from the Chinese and the distinction may not really be there.
In terms of the construction of the sentence, I do agree with FX Fraipont.

Whose thickets, which resemble flowers, envelope/embrace(hug) the exterior walls of the buildings the nuns live in.

Dont les fourrés fleuris enveloppent/étreignent les celles/cellules.

enfold - to envelope or to embrace (condensed from Webster’s)

thicket {(assumed) ME thikket, fr. OE thiccet, fr. thicce [=] thick} 1 : a dense growth of shrubbery or small trees : COPPICE 2 : something resembling a thicket in density or impenetrability : TANGLE (Webster’s)

coppice {MF copeiz, fr. couper [=] to cut} 1 : a thicket, grove, or growth of small trees

cell {ME, fr. OE, religious house and OF celle [=] hermit’s cell, fr. L cella [=] small room; akin to L celare [=] to conceal} 1 : a small religious house dependent on a monastery or convent 2 a : a one-room dwelling occupied by a solitary person (as a hermit) b: a single room ( as in a convent or prison) usu. for one person (Webster’s)

2. celle XIIIe s., G., « cellule de moine » ; lat. cella, chambre, repris sous la forme lat. par l’archéologie au XVIIIe s. (Larousse Dictionnaire d’étymologie)

Wikipédia – La Celle-en-Morvan
La « celle » est un terme médiéval désignant la cellule d’un ermite. L’une des plus anciennes mentions de la Celle-en-Morvan évoque une « celle sancti mederici » : celle de Saint Merry, né au VIIe siècle dans une noble famille éduenne, abbé de l’abbaye de Saint-Martin d’Autun qui se retira comme ermite, mais qu’on vint rechercher ; il partit pour Paris où il mourut dans une grande réputation de sainteté. Il donna son nom à une paroisse de Paris. Sa retraite en Morvan devait se trouver à proximité de l’église de la Celle, au flanc de la montagne, où se trouve une « fontaine Saint Merry », recherchée autrefois pour accorder la fécondité aux femmes stériles.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Celle-en-Morvan

thicket – fourré nm (Larousse)
coppice – taillis nm (Hachette & Larousse)

Caché derrière de magnifiques **fourrés fleuris,** un parc animalier comprenant divers animaux domestiques:
http://www.mas-des-oliviers.com/parc.htm


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 days (2007-08-14 13:14:45 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Merci, Stéphanie :-)

Claire Chapman
Local time: 02:45
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 24
Grading comment
Merci à tous, j'opte pour "cells" en référence aux "cellules" du couvent. J'aimerais partager les points, mais...
Notes to answerer
Asker: Je ne connaissais pas "celle", mais c'est pas mal (et tellement proche de l'anglais)

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