To fall foul of the law

14:08 Nov 12, 2013 

Actually the machines could fall fowl of the law (e.g. not meet safety requirements and so not be allowed to operate) without the owner/manufacturer running afoul the law (e.g. no intent to harm and no damage because the machine has not been operated.)

13:31 Nov 12, 2013 

Gintautai, the examples I've provided come from American and South African sources (bullying letters http://www.timeslive.co.za/opinion/columnists/2011/07/30/the... big turbines http://www.cleantechlawpartners.com/News_files/CLP_AWEA_Post... We ARE splitting hairs here.

12:45 Nov 12, 2013 

Diana, we are talking about EN>LT, are we not? If the sentence that needs translating is 'Bullying letters may fall foul of the law', that's rather poorly written, because it should be "The authors of bullying letters may fall foul of the law". Likewise with 'It should be ensured that the big turbines don't fall foul of the law" should be rewritten to make the subject of the sentence not the turbines but the owners or operators. « Bauginančių laiškų autoriai gali patekti į teisėsaugos nemalonę. » « Įmonės savininkams reikia užtikrinti, kad įrengdami didžiasias turbinas, nepatektų į teisėsaugos nemalonę. »

11:54 Nov 12, 2013 

Depends on whether you take "the law" to mean "legislation" or "law enforcement officers/agencies". My own reading of the expression at hand is that it refers to legislation, in which case we should be looking for phrases with "įstatymai". Now, if you see it as referring to law enforcement (as it would be more usual to "fall foul of" people), then you can go along the lines of Gintautas' suggestion as long as you aren't faced with the limitation Diana raises. But we are splitting hairs here, if you adk me. It's just an expression about breaking the law, with a a stronger negative emotional connotation.

11:41 Nov 12, 2013 

Gintautai, 'patekti į teisėsaugos nemalonę' sounds perfect when talking about people: 'žurnalistai pateko į teisėsaugos nemalonę', or as it appears in your example. But what about sentences like 'Bullying letters may fall foul of the law', or 'It should be ensured that the big turbines don't fall foul of the law'? Would you translate them as 'Bauginantys laiškai gali patekti į teisėsaugos nemalonę' or 'Reikia užtikrinti, kad didžiosios turbinos nepatektų į teisėsaugos nemalonę'?

23:00 Nov 10, 2013 

If 'nusižengti įstatymui' were a proposed answer, I would definitely agree with it. It catches something that 'pažeisti' doesn't.

22:54 Nov 10, 2013 

Would nusižengti įstatymui be a closer match in terms of connotation?

12:20 Nov 10, 2013 

That is a matter of perspective. As a suggestion humbly submitted, they might do well enough, but I imagine a paying client might have a different opinion all too often, like I did when a Lithuanian translated back road as kelias atgal instead of as tertiary road.

12:15 Nov 10, 2013 

There are simply too many native Lithuanian speakers for me to ever be able to compete successfully against them, while there is a definite lack of native English speakers translating from Lithuanian. Thus I am simply working to my strengths. But I can bring insight to unlisted terms, which I do when the occasion presents itself.

12:13 Nov 10, 2013 

OK, I've just reversed pairs in several questions. I am not kidding. No, they don't sound like utter nonsense.

12:04 Nov 10, 2013 

You have to be kidding. I am a Lithuanian to English expert and this question has wrongly been placed in that category. I can explain what the English means, but I have no idea whatsoever about how to translate it, or even if it can be. Perhaps something along the lines of tureti problema su teisesaugos pareigunais, but my words probably sound like utter nonsense.

11:57 Nov 10, 2013 

Yes, you can break the law innocently or through ignorance, but you are definitely in violation of at least one law. To be foul of one does not require any wrong doing.

11:57 Nov 10, 2013 

What answer do you suggest then?

11:54 Nov 10, 2013 

Oh, there is overlap. And one can break the law but never be punished or even charged, while to fall foul of means that you are at the least a suspect or being audited/investigated.

11:45 Nov 10, 2013 

Not necessarily, Arturai. 'Breaking the law' is not identical to 'breaking it while being aware you are doing it'. How many times people break the law unintentionally? How many times you (the general you) break the law out of ignorance?

11:34 Nov 10, 2013 

Although the law might be broken, to fall foul of the law (unlike to fall fowl of it), to my thinking, means to be in trouble in respect to the law. This might be through negligence, ignorance, or innocence (wrongly charged and/or convicted). To break the law means more to know you are doing so but doing it anyway.