stagecoach gun

08:53 Jul 30, 2012
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other

English to Serbian translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Military / Defense / weapons
English term or phrase: stagecoach gun
Vrsta puške
Bogdan Petrovic
Serbia
Local time: 09:02


Summary of answers provided
4 +1skraćena sačmara
Goran Stankovic
4 -1кочијашка пушка
Aleksandar Skobic
5 -2vinčesterka
Branka Ramadanovic
4 -2sačmara (pratilaca diližansi)
Mira Stepanovic
Summary of reference entries provided
1864 WELLS FARGO STAGECOACH SHOTGUN etc...
Daryo

Discussion entries: 25





  

Answers


2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -2
sačmara (pratilaca diližansi)


Explanation:
Moj predlog.
Koliko ja znam češće je u upotrebi "sačmara" nego "sačmarica" kao što je dato u sledećem tekstu:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/a.nnotate/docs/2010-01-22/qGWqyHlsgl...
TOZ 123 kalibra 4/81 je gigantsa pamp-ekšn puška, najvećeg mogućeg sačmarskog kalibra 4, koji je bio popularan u 19. veku, kod pratilaca diližansi koje su prevozile zlato i novac. Kalibar 4 je nastao još u doba crnog baruta i kod njega je prečnik cilindričnog dela cevi (prečnik duše cevi) neverovatnih 23,4 cm.

Stagecoach = diližansa

http://www.theamericansurvivor.us/Shotguns For Home Defense....
A Stagecoach Shotgun For Home Defense?
...
This means that even a load of
heavy bird shot, such as No. 6 can be an
effective defense load. Personally, I like
No. 4 buck shot. They are .24 in diameter
and a 2-3/4 inch shell contains 27
pellets.


Poređenjem prvog i drugog teksta se jasno može uočiti neverovatna omaška u tekstu na srpskom u dimenziji prečnika cevi, umesto 2 -3/4 inča (približno 7 cm) napisano je 23,4cm. :-)

Mira Stepanovic
Serbia
Local time: 09:02
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in Serbo-CroatSerbo-Croat
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Aleksandar Skobic: Дефинитивно није „дилижанса“. То је француски назив, никада се није користио у САД или ВБ, а и код нас се „stagecoach“ преводи као (поштанска) кочија, као нпр. чувени филм са Џ. Вејном из 1939. године.
5 hrs
  -> Definitivno jeste http://sr.finanzalarm.com/details/17/Дилижанса.html Дилижанса (фр. diligence; скр. од voiture de diligence или carrosse de diligence: брза кола), је поштанска кочија за ...

disagree  Goran Stankovic: Sačmara je širok pojam. Skraćena sačmarica je baš ta koja je bila izbor posade poštanskih kočija
1 day 8 hrs
  -> Bila bih vam veoma zahvalna kada biste nam dali neku pouzdanu referencu iz koje se to jasno vidi. Kod ovog termina apsolutno je nebitno da li je sačmara skraćena ili ne, to nije definisano ni u engleskom nazivu, bitno je ko je i za šta koristi.

disagree  M. Vučković: PUMP-ACTION (pamp-ekšn). Veliki broj modela lovačkih sačmarica petometki i jedan lovački karabin...; http://www.srndac.kruscic.com/index.php/leksikon Dalje, u vašem linku naslov je Višemetne sačmarice TOZ, reč sačmara se nigde ne pominje u tekstu;
1 day 9 hrs
  -> Bitno je da se spominje u odgovoru, hvala.

agree  Daryo: u meri kojoj je ovo oruzje definisano time KO GA I ZA STA GA KORISTI; inace "stagecoach" je kocija/dilizansa/kola za visednevna putovanja (iz vise etapa, in several STAGES) - sto je danas pojam koji se potpuno izgubio i tesko je prevodiv.
5 days
  -> Hvala Daryo, namera mi je i bila da sa što manje reči opišem ko i za šta ga koristi jer nemamo ustaljeni prevod;"stagecoach"-slažem se: to bi bila diližansa/poštanska kola/kočija (samo kočija=carriage) http://www.nasa-lika.com/forum/index.php?topic=288.0
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -2
vinčesterka


Explanation:
Pošto sam mnogo čitala kaubojske romane i gledala kaubojske fimove, obično su ti na tim poštanskim kočijama nosili vinčesterke. Tako da ako treba neki kratak termin koji asocira na divlji zapad i na te kočije, ja bih to predložila.

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Note added at 5 hrs (2012-07-30 14:19:29 GMT)
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Draga Miro, ja sam samo pokušala pomoći i ponudila praktično iako ne možda doslovno rješenje kao vi. Prijatno.

Branka

Branka Ramadanovic
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 09:02
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in BosnianBosnian, Native in CroatianCroatian
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Mira Stepanovic: vinčesterka je "Winchester rifle" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_rifle Imate li možda neki pouzdaniji dokaz od gledanja i čitanja kaubojskih filmova i romana?/Draga Branka, sve puške naizgled liče jedne na druge ali razlike među njima su velike.
6 mins
  -> Draga Miro, otvorite Google Images i ukucajte stagecoach gun i vidite na šta liče tamo te puške na slikama. To je osim kaubojskih romana i filmova ...

disagree  Daryo: "stagecoach gun" je "etiketa" nalepljena na skracene sacmarice [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coach_gun]
5 days
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4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
кочијашка пушка


Explanation:
То је пушка коју су користили кочијаши и обезбеђење кочије при вожњи за одбрану, најчешће од друмских разбојника.

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Note added at 8 hrs (2012-07-30 17:20:55 GMT)
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И даље не видим зашто није кочијашко, ако се веже за кочију и пратиоце (поштанских) кочија, или ако хоћете, дилижанси? Те кочије су често превозиле само путнике, па се никада нису називале путничке већ поштанске. Ја не желим да будем „већи католик од Папе“, и далеко од тога да се одричем већ поодавно усвојених термина, само сам скренуо пажњу да се „stagecoach“ у примерима Дивљег запада и сл. преводило као Поштанска кочија.

И да напоменем - не видим ово као расправу, ми смо сви ту да помогнемо једни другима, а не да омаловажавамо једни друге. У том духу не би требало да смо изричити, као што сте ви били: „Šta bi to bilo "kočijaška puška" u sr. jeziku, puška kočijaša?“ Мој превод се односио на ситуација у којима се она носила/користила, а не коме је припадала.

Aleksandar Skobic
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 09:02
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in CroatianCroatian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Mira Stepanovic: Definitivno nije ništa kočijaško, tj. u vezi za kočijašima; pre će biti da je vezano za diližansu tj. poštansku kočiju: http://sr.wikipedia.org/sr/Дилижанса http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagecoach
7 hrs
  -> Као што рекох, то је било предлог у духу превода, јер очигледно да нема прихваћен превод. А зашто не кочијашки, када постоји нпр. кочијашки бич? Мени се једнако не свиђа да кажем: сачмара пратилаца поштанске кочије.

neutral  Daryo: pratilac je bio naoruzan; posao kocijasa je bio da hvata maglu sto brze moze, ne da se prepucava
5 days
  -> А шта се колега деси када погине кочијаш? Његов сувозач/пратилац преузима узде и постаје кочијаш. Сврха је приближити превод колико је могуће више, а не детаљно преводити његову намену.
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
skraćena sačmara


Explanation:
Kd nas se takva puška nije proizvodila ali u SAD i Rusiji jeste. U SAD-u je dobila popularan naziv stagecoach gun ili samo coach gun što je kao što je i kolega Škobić dobro preveo kao kočijaška puška. Ipak mora da se naglasi da to nije bilo koja sačmara ili sačmarica (što je sasvim sve jedno) nego je to skraćena sačmara i to je odvaja od svih ostalih sačmarica.

http://chuckfor.blogspot.com/2007/01/remington-stagecoach-sh...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coach_gun

"Ruskinje" se prolepšale - Kalibar | Tekst
www.kalibar.rs/code/navigate.php?Id=108&editionId=27&articl...
Sačmarica položara IŽ MP-43 KH, kalibra 12/70, sa spoljašnjim udaračima ima veoma kratku cev od 510 mm. Veoma neobično, tako kratke cevi su opremljene ...

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Note added at 6 hrs (2012-07-30 15:06:57 GMT)
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Pink kadilak,sačmarica i milioni-od internet gurua | Vesti | Tanjug
www.tanjug.rs/.../pink-kadilak-sacmarica-i-milioni-od-inter...
20 јан 2012 – Kad su ušli, zatekli su gospodina Dotkoma u blizini vatrenog oružja koje je izgledalo kao skraćena sačmarica.... Definitivno, ulazak u tu kuću ...

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Note added at 23 hrs (2012-07-31 07:57:25 GMT)
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http://www.scribd.com/doc/40632860/Kaubojske-priče
Zatim je, iznenada ugledavši kočiju na obzorju, prašnjava traga i uzvitlane ..... Pratili su potok gotovo sat vremena prema zapadu prije no što su okrenuli na jug ..... Billy-Jack odmahne i okrene skraćenu sačmaricu prema njemu

Goran Stankovic
Serbia
Local time: 09:02
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Serbian
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Mira Stepanovic: Kako ste došli do toga da je u pitanju skraćena sačmara? To nigde ne piše u vašim referencama. Šta bi to bilo "kočijaška puška" u sr. jeziku, puška kočijaša? Ne, tu pušku su nosili pratioci, čuvari diližansi a ne kočijaši./ Super pouzdana ref. :-)
6 mins
  -> Pitao sam inžinjera iz fabrike Zastava Namenska, ali šta ću sada priteran sam uz zid.

agree  Milos Mladenovic
1 day 16 hrs
  -> Hvala

agree  Daryo: "skraćena sačmara" jeste najcesce oruzje koje su koristili naoruzani pratioci, ali ste u prevodu zagubili NAMENU tog oruzja, sto je bitan deo izraza "stagecoach gun"
5 days
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Reference comments


3 days 7 hrs
Reference: 1864 WELLS FARGO STAGECOACH SHOTGUN etc...

Reference information:
1864 WELLS FARGO STAGECOACH SHOTGUN

Favoured By Confederate Cavalry And Guerilla Bands This Non Firing Replica Is A Worthy Addition To Any Collection.

Breakable Barrel And Working Cocking And Trigger Mechanism.
link na sliku:
[http://www.battleorders.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/...]

izvor: [http://www.battleorders.co.uk/1864-stagecoach-shotgun-g1114....]

Samo jedan deo je o "STAGECOACH SHOTGUN", ostatak je "kolateralna korist".

Riding shotgun
Meaning

To travel as an armed guard next to a vehicle's driver. Latterly, (chiefly in the USA) - to travel in a car's front passenger seat.
Origin

Please Sir, I know this one. It's from the wild west stagecoaches, which had guards armed with shotguns to protect them isn't it, or was it English stagecoaches to protect them from highwaymen? Whoa, there pardner. Maybe that's what people think, but there's no evidence to place this phrase that far back in history, in the USA or England.

riding shotgun The reference is to the US stagecoaches that were an essential feature of Hollywood westerns - usually being chased by Indians or bad guys in black hats. In the 1939 classic film Stagecoach, George Bancroft plays Marshal Curly Wilcox who is featured riding shotgun in screens throughout the film, to protect the coach from the pesky Apaches. He mentions the term explicitly in the dialogue:

"You boys take care of the office for a couple of days. I'm going to Lordsburg with Buck. I'm gonna ride shotgun."

The earliest reference I can find in print to people riding shotgun in real life is from the Utah [where else?] newspaper The Ogden Examiner, May 1919 - headed "Ross Will Again Ride Shotgun on Old Stage Coach":

Driven by Alex Toponce and A. Y. Ross, an old fashioned stage coach made in 1853 and used on the Deadwood stage line in the early days of Wyoming, will appear in Ogden streets on the day of the Golden Spike celebration.

Alex Toponce was in the early days the owner of a stage line. He will probably drive the old fashioned vehicle, while A. Y. Ross, famous in railroad circles as a fearless express messenger and who on several occasions battled with bandits on the plains, will probably ride "shotgun" as he did in the past.

Express messengers, like A. Y. Ross were also called shotgun messengers and the guns they used were called messenger shotguns.

Long distance stagecoaches ceased to be used soon after the introduction of the transcontinental railroad in 1869. Short haul coaches lasted a little longer but their use was also in steep decline by 1900 and they disappeared when motor vehicles became available early in the 20th century.

====
There is good evidence that people were employed to guard stagecoaches on early USA stagelines. In October 1891, the Iowa newspaper The Oxford Mirror, published this comment:

"Of all the devices and inventions for the protection of treasure and circumvention of the road agent, the only one that has stood the test of time and experience is a big, ugly-tempered man with a sawed-off shotgun on the box
."
==== izgleda je u pitanju "skraćena sačmara" ? kao na slici [http://www.phrases.org.uk/images/stagecoach.jpg]


It seems quite plausible that the term riding shotgun would have been used, but it appears that it wasn't - not until well after stagecoaches had gone out of use and people started making westerns. Although we have 20th century references to people riding on stagecoaches with shotguns from films and newspapers, there are no accounts from the 19th century that call this riding shotgun.

The 1950s saw a spate of TV cowboy series in which riding shotgun was so commonplace in the scripts as to be almost obligatory. The term was taken up by US teenagers when referring to riding in the front passenger seat of a car. It became a game to shout "I call shotgun" to reserve the front seat - which was generally seen as being the premium position (although, in those pre-seatbelt and air-bag days, probably the worst choice). This was shortened in the 1960s to just shotgun. The term in that context is restricted to the USA.

The figurative use of the earlier version of the term was in common use by the 1980s. Here's an example from The [London] Times from January 1980:

"It was quite by chance that The Times found itself riding shotgun for the Red Army."

Riding shotgun in the real sense has moved on since the days of stagecoaches. VIPs who travel in limousines are now often flanked by several motorcycle outriders. This has also been adopted in a figurative sense and supporters of political figures, especially those who aren't employed directly as spokespeople but who feign independence in order to give the appearance of a politician's wider appeal, to are often now called outriders; for example, The Morning Star, September 2006:

Tony Blair's outriders have floated the idea of a "which direction for Labour?" debate.

Since the September 2001 terrorist attack in New York, US airlines have begun employing air marshals to protect the planes in flight. These have widely been described as riding shotgun. They don't carry shotguns of course, that would be rather counter-productive in pressurized cabins at 30,000 feet.
[http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/riding-shotgun.html]


    Reference: http://www.battleorders.co.uk/1864-stagecoach-shotgun-g1114....
    Reference: http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/riding-shotgun.html
Daryo
United Kingdom
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 4
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