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past mark of mouth

English translation: full of admiration for the previous answer,and excellent Surtees ref.but ......

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10:30 Apr 3, 2004
English to English translations [PRO]
Idioms / Maxims / Sayings
English term or phrase: past mark of mouth
"They rode on through the damp and even misty dawn, Stephen and Jacob on strong capable geldings, *past mark of mouth*, the young huntsman on a serviceable pony"
Jonathan MacKerron
English translation:full of admiration for the previous answer,and excellent Surtees ref.but ......
Explanation:
....I would say it is the age of the horses - more than 7 or 8 yrs, but still strong and capable - not tired old broken down horses.

[non working link]
"mark of mouth - a depression in a horse's
incisor indicating age."

Act 3 of the play 'She Stoops To Conquer'
"... enough for a man— Certainly, we don't meet many such at a horse-race in ... One would think you wanted to know one's age, as they do horses, by mark of mouth. ..."
www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/ shop/goldsmth/stoops/act3.htm

[non working link]
"The Commodore" (Excerpt)
"... A black gelding, sir: sixteen hands, past mark of mouth.'. ... Which Mrs Williams is
very particular about Briggs's horse,' said the groom with a curious emphasis. ... "
web.wwnorton.com/pob/commodor.htm

http://www.worldzone.net/recreation/virtuallyhorses/anatomy....
"Age [of horses]
The age of a horse is determined by examining the front (incisor) teeth. There are six of these teeth in each jaw.....
...At one year the horse looks young, as a fluffy tail and shows six new unworn milk teeth in each jaw.
At two the horse still looks young but has lost the fluffy hairs of the tail. The jaws still show a complete set of milk teeth but they are now worn.
At three the centre two milk teeth in each jaw have been replaced b permanent teeth which are larger and show a sharp edge.
At four two more milk teeth in each jaw have been replaced, namely those lateral to the central two. In the male a tush appears behind the corner incisor.
At five the corner milk teeth have been shed and show as new shell-like teeth at the corners.
At six there is a 'full mouth' but the corner teeth have lost their shell-like appearance.

****At seven a hook appears on the top corner tooth. A similar hook may show at thirteen which may lead to confusion. ****** [I assume the mark is at 7 or 8]

At eight the hook has disappeared, the tables of the teeth show wear and the black hollow centres have disappeared.

From eight onwards there is no certainty although among other things an intimate knowledge of the changes in the outline of the 'tables' of the teeth and the slope of the jaws enables an opinion to be formed."





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Note added at 7 hrs 39 mins (2004-04-03 18:09:24 GMT)
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Not for kudos

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Note added at 7 hrs 46 mins (2004-04-03 18:16:41 GMT)
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To asker: the horses are older than 7 or 8, but they are not old horses, as such....

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Note added at 7 hrs 47 mins (2004-04-03 18:17:19 GMT)
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just experienced :-)

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Note added at 7 hrs 47 mins (2004-04-03 18:17:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Not for kudos (I vote for Hacene)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs 57 mins (2004-04-03 19:28:07 GMT)
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(even though there is a slight difference)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 36 mins (2004-04-04 11:06:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

(the bit does/can cause wear to the teeth - not convinced this is involved here - but I still vote for Hacene)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 42 mins (2004-04-04 11:12:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

(unless heavy wear from the bit can obliterate \"the mark\" prematurely? This last just speculation, and not affecting the answer.)

(Not for kudos)
Selected response from:

DGK T-I
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:07
Grading comment
Thanks!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +5see comment
Hacene
3 +2full of admiration for the previous answer,and excellent Surtees ref.but ......
DGK T-I


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


10 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
see comment


Explanation:
it is an expression when riding horses too far. Horses have mouth pieces which mark them at the beginning. When they are too old or have been ridden too long, they are said to be "past mark of mouth"
in the link below you will find twice this expression in context.


    Reference: http://www.bootlegbooks.com/Fiction/Surtees/Sponge/chap39.ht...
Hacene
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:07
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Vicky Papaprodromou
7 mins
  -> cheers Vicky

agree  xxxAlfa Trans
52 mins
  -> cheers Marju

agree  DGK T-I: agree the horses are past a certain age, but still strong. I'm not convinced that the horses are ridden too long in the sense of overtired or too old(if that was also being suggested by Hacene,maybe it wasn't) -in the Surtees ref.,or in the question text~
7 hrs
  -> cheers Giuli, here ridden for too long is not overtirred, it refers to the work of the mouth piece on the denture.

agree  Jörgen Slet
11 hrs
  -> cheers Jörgen

agree  elenus
1 day22 hrs
  -> cheers Elenus
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
full of admiration for the previous answer,and excellent Surtees ref.but ......


Explanation:
....I would say it is the age of the horses - more than 7 or 8 yrs, but still strong and capable - not tired old broken down horses.

[non working link]
"mark of mouth - a depression in a horse's
incisor indicating age."

Act 3 of the play 'She Stoops To Conquer'
"... enough for a man— Certainly, we don't meet many such at a horse-race in ... One would think you wanted to know one's age, as they do horses, by mark of mouth. ..."
www.ourcivilisation.com/smartboard/ shop/goldsmth/stoops/act3.htm

[non working link]
"The Commodore" (Excerpt)
"... A black gelding, sir: sixteen hands, past mark of mouth.'. ... Which Mrs Williams is
very particular about Briggs's horse,' said the groom with a curious emphasis. ... "
web.wwnorton.com/pob/commodor.htm

http://www.worldzone.net/recreation/virtuallyhorses/anatomy....
"Age [of horses]
The age of a horse is determined by examining the front (incisor) teeth. There are six of these teeth in each jaw.....
...At one year the horse looks young, as a fluffy tail and shows six new unworn milk teeth in each jaw.
At two the horse still looks young but has lost the fluffy hairs of the tail. The jaws still show a complete set of milk teeth but they are now worn.
At three the centre two milk teeth in each jaw have been replaced b permanent teeth which are larger and show a sharp edge.
At four two more milk teeth in each jaw have been replaced, namely those lateral to the central two. In the male a tush appears behind the corner incisor.
At five the corner milk teeth have been shed and show as new shell-like teeth at the corners.
At six there is a 'full mouth' but the corner teeth have lost their shell-like appearance.

****At seven a hook appears on the top corner tooth. A similar hook may show at thirteen which may lead to confusion. ****** [I assume the mark is at 7 or 8]

At eight the hook has disappeared, the tables of the teeth show wear and the black hollow centres have disappeared.

From eight onwards there is no certainty although among other things an intimate knowledge of the changes in the outline of the 'tables' of the teeth and the slope of the jaws enables an opinion to be formed."





--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs 39 mins (2004-04-03 18:09:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Not for kudos

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs 46 mins (2004-04-03 18:16:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

To asker: the horses are older than 7 or 8, but they are not old horses, as such....

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs 47 mins (2004-04-03 18:17:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

just experienced :-)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs 47 mins (2004-04-03 18:17:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Not for kudos (I vote for Hacene)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs 57 mins (2004-04-03 19:28:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

(even though there is a slight difference)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 36 mins (2004-04-04 11:06:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

(the bit does/can cause wear to the teeth - not convinced this is involved here - but I still vote for Hacene)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 42 mins (2004-04-04 11:12:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

(unless heavy wear from the bit can obliterate \"the mark\" prematurely? This last just speculation, and not affecting the answer.)

(Not for kudos)


DGK T-I
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:07
PRO pts in category: 8
Grading comment
Thanks!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Hacene: good explanation
1 hr

agree  Jörgen Slet
3 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




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