secure

English translation: obtain

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:secure
Selected answer:obtain
Entered by: Liviu-Lee Roth

19:12 Mar 1, 2014
English language (monolingual) [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / US EN
English term or phrase: secure
Dear colleagues,

we have a debate about the meaning of "secured" in these 2 examples:

1. the attorney secured his release

2. describe the legal procedures used to secure the electronic data . . . to be used in US courts.

Does it mean " obtained" or "protect"?

Thank you!
Liviu-Lee Roth
United States
Local time: 08:10
obtain both times
Explanation:
I really think it's clear in both cases. Protect/safeguard doesn't seem to me applicable in either case.

In the first, it surely has to mean that the lawyer managed to get him released, that is, obtained his release. That is his lawyer's job, after all, and the lawyer achieved it. I cannot realistically imagine circumstances in which it might mean that the lawyer made his release more secure in some way.

In the second case, although of course data can be and is protected or safeguarded against improper disclosure, made secure, this is not done by legal procedures but by legal provisions. Legal procedures to secure the data must mean legal procedures to obtain the data, so that it can be used in court. We must assume that safeguards are in place such that the data is only released if the appropriate legal procedure is followed.

As I say, "protect" doesn't make sense to me in either of these contexts.

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Note added at 8 hrs (2014-03-02 03:16:54 GMT)
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There is no reason to think that "secure his release" means "ensure/make certain his release". It would be an odd use of the word, to my mind. I'm not saying that reading is impossible, but simply that "obtain" is much more likely.

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Note added at 8 hrs (2014-03-02 03:19:15 GMT)
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After all, in what sense could an attorney ensure someone's release or make it certain? All an attorney can do is argue that his/her client should be released and hope that the judge agrees.

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Note added at 8 hrs (2014-03-02 03:31:54 GMT)
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I would say that in general "secure" is very commonly used to mean "obtain" and not very commonly used to mean "make secure", except in a physical sense: you talk about securing a boat, or an area or building, for example. You can secure a loan, but that's different. But I don't think you usually talk about securing information if you mean making it secure or preventing its disclosure.

If the information is to be used in US courts it must have been obtained. If the question is to protect the data being used in the US court against disclosure, the US court is not going to be asking the foreign court to describe the legal procedures for doing so; those legal procedures will be applied in the US. That's supposing that it could mean "make secure", which I don't believe it does, since the verb "secure" would not have been used for that.
Selected response from:

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 14:10
Grading comment
Thank you all for your valuable contribution
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED
5 +2you are right - first is obtained; second is protect
acetran
5 +1obtain both times
Charles Davis
3 +2make certain / obtain
Helena Chavarria


  

Answers


22 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
you are right - first is obtained; second is protect


Explanation:
secure means:
1. free from or not exposed to danger or harm;safe.
2. affording safety.


acetran
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in HindiHindi, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: I think that from a procedural point of view (US) it is more important the way the data was obtained than the way it is protected.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jean-Claude Gouin
6 hrs

agree  Ahmad Hegazy
15 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
obtain both times


Explanation:
I really think it's clear in both cases. Protect/safeguard doesn't seem to me applicable in either case.

In the first, it surely has to mean that the lawyer managed to get him released, that is, obtained his release. That is his lawyer's job, after all, and the lawyer achieved it. I cannot realistically imagine circumstances in which it might mean that the lawyer made his release more secure in some way.

In the second case, although of course data can be and is protected or safeguarded against improper disclosure, made secure, this is not done by legal procedures but by legal provisions. Legal procedures to secure the data must mean legal procedures to obtain the data, so that it can be used in court. We must assume that safeguards are in place such that the data is only released if the appropriate legal procedure is followed.

As I say, "protect" doesn't make sense to me in either of these contexts.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2014-03-02 03:16:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

There is no reason to think that "secure his release" means "ensure/make certain his release". It would be an odd use of the word, to my mind. I'm not saying that reading is impossible, but simply that "obtain" is much more likely.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2014-03-02 03:19:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

After all, in what sense could an attorney ensure someone's release or make it certain? All an attorney can do is argue that his/her client should be released and hope that the judge agrees.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2014-03-02 03:31:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I would say that in general "secure" is very commonly used to mean "obtain" and not very commonly used to mean "make secure", except in a physical sense: you talk about securing a boat, or an area or building, for example. You can secure a loan, but that's different. But I don't think you usually talk about securing information if you mean making it secure or preventing its disclosure.

If the information is to be used in US courts it must have been obtained. If the question is to protect the data being used in the US court against disclosure, the US court is not going to be asking the foreign court to describe the legal procedures for doing so; those legal procedures will be applied in the US. That's supposing that it could mean "make secure", which I don't believe it does, since the verb "secure" would not have been used for that.

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 14:10
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 136
Grading comment
Thank you all for your valuable contribution
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you Charles. Since we think alike, I am going to copy/paste your answer and send it to the PM.

Asker: Thank you for your help!


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Teresa Reinhardt
18 hrs
  -> Thanks, Teresa!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
make certain / obtain


Explanation:
I don't want to confuse matters but it seems to me that the first time the word appears it means 'make possible/assure' and the second, 'obtain'.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/secure

http://www.wordreference.com/es/translation.asp?tranword=to ...

secure someone's release (=make it possible for someone such as a prisoner to have their freedom): We are seeking their assistance in securing the release of the hostages.

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/secure

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Note added at 1 hr (2014-03-01 20:36:35 GMT)
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On second thoughts, 'to secure data' could mean 'to protect it'

Securing stored data involves preventing unauthorized people from accessing it as well as preventing accidental or intentional destruction, infection or corruption of information. While data encryption is a popular topic, it is just one of many techniques and technologies that can be used to implement a tiered data-security strategy. Steps to secure data involve understanding applicable threats, aligning appropriate layers of defense and continual monitoring of activity logs taking action as needed.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9002188/Top_10_ways_t...



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Note added at 1 hr (2014-03-01 20:45:14 GMT)
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This policy will help to:

safeguard private University data and conform to legal and contractual mandates;
safeguard University computers and electronic devices and the data stored or accessed by these devices from accidental or intentional damage and from alteration or theft of data; and
designate the appropriate level of security requirements for securing computers and other electronic devices

http://www.policy.umn.edu/Policies/it/Use/SECUREDATA.html

Maybe 'safeguard' is better than 'protect'.

It is imperative to protect students’ privacy to avoid discrimination, identity theft or other malicious and damaging criminal acts.  All education 
data holders must act responsibly and be held accountable for safeguarding students’ personally identifiable information - from practitioners of early learning to those developing systems across the education continuum (P‐20) and from schools to their contractors.

https://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/fpco/ferpa/safeguarding-...

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Note added at 1 hr (2014-03-01 20:47:53 GMT)
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The purpose of these guidelines is to assist Departments, Offices and Agencies in implementing systems and procedures that will ensure, as much as possible, that personal data in their possession is kept safe and secure and to help Departments, Offices and Agencies meet their legal responsibilities as set out above.

https://www.dataprotection.ie/documents/guidance/GuidanceFin...

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Note added at 1 hr (2014-03-01 20:54:17 GMT)
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'Obtain' was my first thought but after a bit more research, I decided it had to mean 'safeguard' (maybe because there's more info about keeping data safe than obtaining it). However, I'm sure that when you work on the rest of the text you'll be able to work out the meaning.

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Note added at 12 hrs (2014-03-02 07:29:27 GMT)
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Another reason in favour of 'obtain'.

If it really reads 'used to secure information', it has to mean 'obtain'. There is no article so it cannot refer to specific information that is already in their possession but to indefinite information that may, or may not, be found in the future..

'The procedures used to secure THE information' is not the same as 'The procedures used to secure information'.

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Note added at 12 hrs (2014-03-02 07:40:46 GMT)
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Final answer, which is the same as my original answer:

1st use of secure = make possible/certain/ensure

2nd use of secure = obtain

Helena Chavarria
Spain
Local time: 14:10
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12
Notes to answerer
Asker: Unfortunately, I cannot provide more context because it is from a letter rogatory, but my understanding is that the US wants to make sure that the data was obtained accordingly to the US procedure.

Asker: OK. It is about the US requesting another country to describe the procedures used to ***secure*** information about a suspected criminal. I am firmly convinced that it is "obtain", but my PM doesn't possess a legal mind.

Asker: Sorry, I did not write it that way; the DOJ did. I just explained the larger context.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tina Vonhof: Actually in the first ase, it also means 'obtained' (the attorney took steps to obtain it).
21 mins
  -> Thanks, Tina. It's one of those questions that the more you look at it, the more complicated it gets :)

agree  Yvonne Gallagher: yes, //OK since he's got all the info it seems it is about obtaining the data in the 2nd. but your first "secure a release" = ensure /make certain/or obtain, all synonyms here surely?
1 hr
  -> Thank you, Gallagy :) // Yes, and I was looking for synonyms becuase I didn't want to use the question as my answer!
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