Contracted works or works contracted (word order)

English translation: works contracted

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22:27 Nov 29, 2006
English to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / Agreement Contract
English term or phrase: Contracted works or works contracted (word order)
If for any reason, the Contracting Party is obliged to pay any tax, tariff in relation to the execution of the *contracted works*, the EMPLOYER shall pay out to the Contracting Party, against receipt and within fifteen (15) days upon its presentation the amount paid plus a 7% surcharge on account of administrative expenses.
Lydianette Soza
Belize
Local time: 20:41
English translation:works contracted
Explanation:
I don't claim to have any great specialist legal knowledge here, but just instinctively and linguistically, I would have a very slight preference for this word order.

I think 'contracted' is one of those past participles that hasn't quite yet become 100% accepted as an adjective, so 'contracted works' doesn't sound quite as natural as, say: 'burnt twig'.

Also, were the sentence to have been written slightly differently, it might have ready "in relation to the works being contracted" — in this case, you wouldn't dream of saying "the being-contracted works" (as we might in German, say!), and so I would follow the same logic when using the past participle.

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Note added at 10 mins (2006-11-29 22:37:59 GMT)
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Ahem: "...it might have READ..."

Tired boy tonight, sorry!

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Note added at 10 hrs (2006-11-30 08:59:48 GMT)
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Note in response to AD's comment:

As I said, it certainly can't be said that the use of the past participle "contracted" as an adjective used attributively is 'wrong' — but I still feel that the word has not yet fallen into wide acceptance in this rôle. It could still tend to be taken (however subconsciously!) in the meaning of contracted = having shrunk, for example.

One needs to be very careful as to how one interprets those 'usage statistics' that certain colleagues are so fond of; the problem is, there are very many instances where the collocation 'contracted works' will quite legitimately be found, but the usage is NOT the adjectival one at issue here. It would take many hours of painstaking (and may I say utterly pointless!) work on Google et al. to be able to differentiate between, and eliminate, these legitimate uses, to find ONLY those ones illustrating this particular point. I am not about to waste my time doing this, but I would be willing to bet that the findings would ultimately support my argument. Let's always bear in mind those "lies, damned lies..."
Selected response from:

Tony M
France
Local time: 04:41
Grading comment
Thanks a lot!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +7works contracted
Tony M
5 +3contracted works
Alexander Demyanov


  

Answers


8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +7
contracted works or works contracted (word order)
works contracted


Explanation:
I don't claim to have any great specialist legal knowledge here, but just instinctively and linguistically, I would have a very slight preference for this word order.

I think 'contracted' is one of those past participles that hasn't quite yet become 100% accepted as an adjective, so 'contracted works' doesn't sound quite as natural as, say: 'burnt twig'.

Also, were the sentence to have been written slightly differently, it might have ready "in relation to the works being contracted" — in this case, you wouldn't dream of saying "the being-contracted works" (as we might in German, say!), and so I would follow the same logic when using the past participle.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 mins (2006-11-29 22:37:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Ahem: "...it might have READ..."

Tired boy tonight, sorry!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2006-11-30 08:59:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Note in response to AD's comment:

As I said, it certainly can't be said that the use of the past participle "contracted" as an adjective used attributively is 'wrong' — but I still feel that the word has not yet fallen into wide acceptance in this rôle. It could still tend to be taken (however subconsciously!) in the meaning of contracted = having shrunk, for example.

One needs to be very careful as to how one interprets those 'usage statistics' that certain colleagues are so fond of; the problem is, there are very many instances where the collocation 'contracted works' will quite legitimately be found, but the usage is NOT the adjectival one at issue here. It would take many hours of painstaking (and may I say utterly pointless!) work on Google et al. to be able to differentiate between, and eliminate, these legitimate uses, to find ONLY those ones illustrating this particular point. I am not about to waste my time doing this, but I would be willing to bet that the findings would ultimately support my argument. Let's always bear in mind those "lies, damned lies..."

Tony M
France
Local time: 04:41
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 80
Grading comment
Thanks a lot!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Dave Calderhead: exactly my feelings on teh subject, Dusty, (:-{)>
1 hr
  -> Thanks, Dave!

neutral  Alexander Demyanov: The statistics don't support the "not accepted" opinion. "Not 100% accepted" is not really saying much. What if it's 99% accepted? I still feel that your opinion may be correct for the English that should be, and not so much in context of the living lang.
2 hrs
  -> Spasibo, Alexander! I didn't say "not accepted", tho' — just "not yet 100% accepted as..."; it's just this sort of tiny issue that often betrays a translated document's foreign origins! Please see my added note above ^^^

agree  humbird: To me this sounds more natural as in American English "contract out" is common usage. Definition? From one source "contract out, to hire an outside contractor to produce or do". In this case *works that were contracted out*.
6 hrs
  -> Thanks, Susan! Exactly as you say: the moment you start expanding it in any way, the answer is made clear.

agree  Erich Ekoputra: That's it.
10 hrs
  -> Thanks, Erich!

agree  Robert Fox
10 hrs
  -> Thanks, Robert!

agree  Jack Doughty
12 hrs
  -> Thanks, Jack!

agree  xxxjarry
14 hrs
  -> Thanks, Jarry!

agree  Alexander Taguiltsev: It is just ellipsis of "that were". Agree with Susan Koyama-Steele: works that were contracted
19 hrs
  -> Spasibo, Alexander!
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10 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +3
contracted works or works contracted (word order)
contracted works


Explanation:
If you say "works contracted" the sentence will still be correct, but "woks contracted" is customarily used with more elaboration on the qualifier: "... contracted by..", "...to", etc.

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Note added at 15 hrs (2006-11-30 13:44:40 GMT)
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To illustrate my point:

"The contracted works" usage:
http://www.google.com/search?rls=GGLJ,GGLJ:2006-48,GGLJ:en&h...

"The works contracted" usage:
http://www.google.com/search?rls=GGLJ,GGLJ:2006-48,GGLJ:en&h...


The difference is pretty obvious and it's not only or so much in numbers as in that "works contracted" is, almost invariably, further qualified, as in "works contracted by firm A to firm B..." and such.


Alexander Demyanov
Local time: 22:41
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 28

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  xxxcmwilliams
56 mins
  -> Thanks, cmwilliams!

agree  conejo
4 hrs
  -> Thanks, conejo!

agree  airmailrpl: -
14 hrs
  -> Thanks, airmailrpl.

neutral  Tony M: But as I said, the difference is not at all obvious if you exclude from both searches some of the red herrings, which then brings them almost to equality, the remaining margin being statistically invalid over such a sample size.
15 hrs
  -> And as I said, it's not so much about numbers. I just don't buy your argument of "contracted" not being widely used in the lowly obj. function, it noble Past Participle bloodline notwithstanding.
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