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family names

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23:32 Feb 16, 2005
English to English translations [Non-PRO]
Linguistics
English term or phrase: family names
I'm translating the story of two families: Scrimi and Giorgioni. Is it better to say "the Scrimi and the Giorgioni families" or "The Scrimis and the Giorgionis"?
And when talking about a single family (eg. to send a letter)?
TIA
deud
English translation:-
Explanation:
When a family name (a proper noun) is pluralized, we almost always simply add an "s." So we go to visit the Smiths, the Kennedys, the Grays, etc.When a family name ends in s, x, ch, sh, or z, however, we form the plural by added -es, as in the Marches, the Joneses, the Maddoxes, the Bushes, the Rodriguezes. Do not form a family name plural by using an apostrophe; that device is reserved for creating possessive forms.



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Note added at 6 mins (2005-02-16 23:38:53 GMT)
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However,
...
There are, further, so called collective nouns, which are singular when we think of them as groups and plural when we think of the individuals acting within the whole (which happens sometimes, but not often).



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 6 mins (2005-02-17 00:38:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Fail to see humbird\'s point. Not sure what she means \"come across\" she means find, because we certainly do, millions of references both in literature, and not necessarily fiction!!
Obviously the \"Giorgioni family\" is correct, as is \"the Giorgonis\".
\"The Giorgoni\", however, not...

There\'s also a famous set of families: The Montagues and the Capulets...
The Reconciliation of the Montagues and Capulets over the
Dead Bodies of Romeo and Juliet, 1853-55. Oil on canvas, 70 x 91 inches. ...
http://www.english.emory.edu/classes/ Shakespeare_Illustrated/Leighton.Romeo.html
:-))
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2005-06,GGL...



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Note added at 1 hr 8 mins (2005-02-17 00:40:53 GMT)
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...Oh and I missed an \"if\" :-)
\"come across\" -if- she means find...
Selected response from:

Elena Petelos
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:18
Grading comment
Thank you!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +10-
Elena Petelos


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +10
-


Explanation:
When a family name (a proper noun) is pluralized, we almost always simply add an "s." So we go to visit the Smiths, the Kennedys, the Grays, etc.When a family name ends in s, x, ch, sh, or z, however, we form the plural by added -es, as in the Marches, the Joneses, the Maddoxes, the Bushes, the Rodriguezes. Do not form a family name plural by using an apostrophe; that device is reserved for creating possessive forms.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 mins (2005-02-16 23:38:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

However,
...
There are, further, so called collective nouns, which are singular when we think of them as groups and plural when we think of the individuals acting within the whole (which happens sometimes, but not often).



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 6 mins (2005-02-17 00:38:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Fail to see humbird\'s point. Not sure what she means \"come across\" she means find, because we certainly do, millions of references both in literature, and not necessarily fiction!!
Obviously the \"Giorgioni family\" is correct, as is \"the Giorgonis\".
\"The Giorgoni\", however, not...

There\'s also a famous set of families: The Montagues and the Capulets...
The Reconciliation of the Montagues and Capulets over the
Dead Bodies of Romeo and Juliet, 1853-55. Oil on canvas, 70 x 91 inches. ...
http://www.english.emory.edu/classes/ Shakespeare_Illustrated/Leighton.Romeo.html
:-))
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2005-06,GGL...



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 8 mins (2005-02-17 00:40:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

...Oh and I missed an \"if\" :-)
\"come across\" -if- she means find...


    Reference: http://cctc2.commnet.edu/grammar/plurals.htm
Elena Petelos
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:18
Native speaker of: Native in GreekGreek
PRO pts in category: 12
Grading comment
Thank you!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Silvina Jover-Cirillo
7 mins
  -> :-))

agree  Will Matter
28 mins
  -> :-))

neutral  humbird: "The Scrimi and the Giorgioni families" sound better to me. You are just lecturing about how to pluralize nouns (or proper nouns). We seldom come across bunch of Kennedys, Maddoxes and Joneses and other same named families. Not realistic even in fiction.
34 mins
  -> We seldom come across the Kennedys??? If you say so! http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls... Even in fiction!! http://www.frontlist.com/detail/0198662181

agree  RHELLER: good explanation of plurals :-)
1 hr
  -> Oh, I have just added some pepper for fiction lovers. :-))

agree  Charlie Bavington: Indeed - and let's not forget "keeping up with the Joneses" :-) Not sure what humbird is on about....
1 hr
  -> Should listen to the Archers! :-))

agree  Costas Zannis: The Corleones in the White House.// Just an axample: www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/10/03_corleones.html
1 hr
  -> Golly! I though for a minute there you were referring to the Clintons! lol

agree  Syeda Tanbira Zaman
2 hrs
  -> :-))

agree  xxxsarahl: how about the Peteloss? who is Tony? lambda omicron lambda
3 hrs
  -> Nope, we stick to Petelos family and Pitellis. :-)) lol http://tonypetelos.com/gallery.htm ...we would otherwise end with pet loss :-)))) lol//Tony is an uncle lol. Dad's first cousin.

agree  Misiaczek
7 hrs
  -> :-))

agree  Amal Al-Arfaj
8 hrs
  -> :-))

agree  tappi_k
11 hrs
  -> :-))
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