be on the dole vs. be on welfare

English translation: dole = unemployment benefit = where you have paid your contributions

14:46 Jul 10, 2003

English language (monolingual) [Non-PRO]

English term or phrase: be on the dole vs. be on welfare

Is it the same?
In my opinion not, but I will appreciate your kind opinion.

Andrzej Lejman KudoZ activity Questions: 521 (7 open) (19 without valid answers) (4 closed without grading) Answers: 7648 Poland
Local time: 08:30

Selected answer:dole = unemployment benefit = where you have paid your contributions

Explanation:
welfare = state welfare, no contributions paid

Selected response from:

Edith Kelly
Switzerland
Local time: 08:30

Grading comment

I have to choose one answer, but I really thank you all. I will remember, that the meaning might be different in Europe and in America.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED

5 +11

dole = unemployment benefit = where you have paid your contributions

Edith Kelly

5 +6

it is exactly the same.

Marian Greenfield

5 +2

Just thought you might want to know...

Lisa Frideborg Eddy (X)

5 +2

dole = unemployment benefits / welfare = other benefits

Sonia Hill

5 +1

No significant difference in current usage

Christopher Crockett

Answers

2 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +6

it is exactly the same.

Explanation:
on the dole is British, and is used here in the U.S. only a bit ironically, referring to the British term.

Marian Greenfield
Local time: 02:30
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in pair: 732

3 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +11

dole = unemployment benefit = where you have paid your contributions

Explanation:
welfare = state welfare, no contributions paid

Edith Kelly
Switzerland
Local time: 08:30
Native speaker of:

German,

English
PRO pts in pair: 278

Grading comment

I have to choose one answer, but I really thank you all. I will remember, that the meaning might be different in Europe and in America.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

uparis

2 mins

-> Thanks.

agree

Lisa Frideborg Eddy (X): spot on

3 mins

-> Thanks Lisa.

agree

Bob Kerns (X): Never claimed either but I fully agree with Edith

9 mins

agree

Steffen Walter

12 mins

agree

J. Leo (X): I was under the impression that 'dole' was for welfare and unemployment on this side of the Atlantic (Europe).

12 mins

agree

jerrie: I think it's now called JSA (Job Seekers Allowance), and the more stamps (NI contributions) the more you're entitled to. I'm sure there was a loophole when I was a student, that meant you could claim during vacation (stamps or no stamps!)

13 mins

-> Thanks all. I can only tell how we use it in Ireland. And there, I'm 100% certain, at least technically.

agree

JudyK: the "dole" refers specifically to unemployment benefit, as stated, whereas "welfare" seems to be to be a more general term for benefit (e.g. low income allowance, etc)

20 mins

agree

Armorel Young: but dole sounds very dated to my English ears now - these days we'd probably just say that someone is "on benefits"

21 mins

-> That is of course true, thanks, but that was not the question.

agree

DGK T-I: Almost agree for UK 'dole'(in relatively recent times)would be benefit for people 'in the dole queue' ie:unemployed 'on the dole' whether it was JSA(benefits for contributions paid)or IncomeSupport(not for contrib.made)May be different in Irish Repub.

43 mins

agree

Empty Whiskey Glass

59 mins

agree

Spiros Doikas

1 hr

-> Thanks all.

18 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

No significant difference in current usage

Explanation:
except that "the dole" is rarely used in the U.S. any more --though it once was, commonly in the "Great Depression" of the 1930s.
I don't agree with Edith's distinction at all, at least in a U.S. context.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-10 15:10:37 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The history of the word \"dole\" is interesting :
Here\'s the O.E.D. :

5. a. Dealing out or distribution of gifts; esp. of food or money given in charity.

C. 1205 Lay. 19646 Six cnihtes..gan to þas kinges dale, swulc heo weoren vn-hale;

6. a. That which is distributed or doled out; esp. a gift of food or money made in charity; hence, a portion sparingly doled out; spec. (usu. the dole); the popular name for the various kinds of weekly payments made from national and local funds to the unemployed since the war of 1914-18. Phr. (to be or go) on the dole: (to be or start being) in receipt of such unemployment relief; also transf. and fig.

1362 Langl. P. Pl. A. iii. 63 Whon 3e 3iuen doles.

1480 Caxton Chron. Eng. ccxlvi. (1482) 311 A dole to poure peple of vi shyllynges viii pens to be delyd peny mele.

U.K. and U.S. usage definitely differ, it appears, though I am certain I\'ve heard the word used in the context of the \'30s depression.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-10 15:15:23 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Finishing my response to Edith :
I\'d say that Dublin was U.K.
\"U.K. and U.S. usage definitely differ\" --what more can I say ?
Thanks, Edith.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-07-10 15:20:50 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

More from the OED to Lisa\'s historical point :

1. The state of being divided; division. Obs.
C. 1000 Ælfric Exod. viii. 23 Ic sette dal betwux þin folc & min folc;

[obsolete sense]
2. a. A part or division of a whole; a portion; = deal sb.1 1. Obs.

A. 1000 Guthlac (Gr.) 25 Is þes middan-(asg)eard, dalum (asg)edæled;

c. A portion of a common or undivided field; = dale2 1. Obs.

1523 Fitzherb. Surv. 41 They [meadows] ought to be well staked bytwene euery mannes dole.

So, the OED doesn\'t run this \"common meadow land\" quite back to Saxon times --but it\'s not infallable, by any means.

Christopher Crockett
Local time: 02:30
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in pair: 128

26 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

Just thought you might want to know...

Explanation:
the origins of the term:

To be on the dole: To be receiving unemployment benefits. In Saxon times strips of common meadow land (doles) were distributed annually. Since the National Insurance Act of 1911, the dole became synonymous with unemployment benefit.

The term is used the same way in the UK, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand, but apparently not in the US :)

Lisa

Reference: http://www.hoganfinancial.com/QuarterlyNotes/Moneyexp.pdf

Lisa Frideborg Eddy (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:30
Native speaker of: Swedish

39 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

dole = unemployment benefits / welfare = other benefits

Explanation:
As I understand it "to be on the dole" is an informal term for receiving unemployment benefits only. The Oxford dictionary states: "Dole: Brit. informal - benefit paid by the state to the unemployed."
I think the term "welfare" is mainly used in N. America, whereas UK English tends to use the term "benefits". Both these two terms cover financial support of various kinds (not just unemployment benefit), such as housing benefit, single parent benefit, etc.

Sonia Hill
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:30
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 4

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