make a braver show

English translation: Put on an act or pretend (conceal true feelings)

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:make a braver show
English translation:Put on an act or pretend (conceal true feelings)
Entered by: Yvonne Gallagher

22:47 Sep 26, 2019
English to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature
English term or phrase: make a braver show
"Well, even so, none made a braver show than she."

Maids say this about an older lady, a countess, who has just returned home from a social outing. The setting is early 19th century Russia.

What exactly does "made a braver show" mean?

Thank you for your help!
Mikhail Kropotov
Russian Federation
Local time: 14:43
Put on an act or pretend
Explanation:
Hard to be exact without knowing more of the context but in s social gathering it usually means that someone pretends to like or no oapprove of somoeone or something even when the opposite is true

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Note added at 37 mins (2019-09-26 23:25:34 GMT)
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SO, they are putting on a show or trying really hard to hide their dislike or disapproval



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Note added at 6 days (2019-10-03 14:26:55 GMT) Post-grading
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Glad to have helped and happy you weren't led astray by some of the "fake news"

For the record, and without typos now I'm finally home again, there is no way that the expression "make a brave show" could mean that she is the most beautiful here. So, if the latter is what the Russian means, this expression is incorrectly used.

Selected response from:

Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 12:43
Grading comment
Thank you so much for your help
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5courageous shoe
Ali Sharifi
4 +1she was the belle of the ball
David Hollywood
4to put on a brave face
Katya Kesten
4Put on an act or pretend
Yvonne Gallagher
4pretended to be unaffected
AJ Ablooglu
4Make a greater effort
JaneTranslates
Summary of reference entries provided
был кто лучше там собою
Vladyslav Golovaty

Discussion entries: 13





  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Make a greater effort


Explanation:
No one made a greater effort (to appear to be stronger, more unconcerned, more confident, etc.) than she did.

More context would surely help. My impression is that the maids are speaking of the countess with admiration. Perhaps she held her head high, displaying dignity despite difficult circumstances.

Yes, it's an act, a pretense, but the phrase is usually used sympathetically. That's why the maids would use the word "brave."

JaneTranslates
Puerto Rico
Local time: 07:43
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 36

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Aline Amorim
33 mins
  -> Thank you, Aline.

neutral  Yvonne Gallagher: make a greater effort at what exactly? Putting on a show, as I said? "brave" means it was difficult for her to put on this show and of course it's usually said admiringly. Although, it turns out the source text doesn't say this after all!
7 hrs
  -> I don't know what, exactly, because we don't have enough context.

disagree  philgoddard: No, see my discussion note.
9 hrs
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
she was the belle of the ball


Explanation:
Noun. belle of the ball (plural belles of the ball) The woman who is the most beautiful or attractive at a dance or similar function.

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Note added at 3 hrs (2019-09-27 01:53:26 GMT)
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given your explanation of the source text

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Note added at 3 hrs (2019-09-27 01:54:28 GMT)
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as you see, this expression doesn't only refer to dances or balls

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Note added at 5 hrs (2019-09-27 03:49:02 GMT)
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I would confirm that in this content and time period it means that the person in question came off best in terms of appearance and attractiveness

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Note added at 5 hrs (2019-09-27 03:52:39 GMT)
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what's the source language?

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Note added at 5 hrs (2019-09-27 03:56:18 GMT)
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the belle of the ball means the lady involved won the show in terms of being the one they all looked at NOT necessarily the most attractive or beautiful

David Hollywood
Local time: 08:43
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 114
Notes to answerer
Asker: Hi David, I'm not translating from the Russian but only checking someone else's translation for accuracy. Can you please confirm that "made a braver show" does NOT mean "the most attractive"?


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Yvonne Gallagher: David this expression does NOT mean this at all. You are giving a headline answer for what Mikhail thinks the ST SHOULD BE and your last notes are really contradictory
5 hrs

agree  philgoddard: Yes, you're quite right: brave doesn't mean courageous. As my discussion note shows, it means striking or dazzling. I disagree with your last comment, though.
7 hrs

agree  Erzsébet Czopyk: "about an older lady, a countess" the sentence itself contains an inner contrast between her age and being a belle of the event, this is what means something, IMHO
2 days 4 hrs
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
pretended to be unaffected


Explanation:
In the above sentence “even so” makes me wonder if something went wrong at the social outing and this lady pretended to be unaffected from it.
I sincerely doubt that being bell of the ball has anything to do with it.

AJ Ablooglu
Turkey
Local time: 14:43
Native speaker of: Native in TurkishTurkish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Yvonne Gallagher: yes, this is also on the right lines of what this expression actually means
1 hr
  -> thank you

disagree  philgoddard: See my discussion note.
2 hrs
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
courageous shoe


Explanation:
Courage and bravery have a lot in common, so courageous could mean brave.

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Note added at 8 hrs (2019-09-27 07:37:43 GMT)
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It is show and not shoe,

Ali Sharifi
United States
Local time: 07:43
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in Farsi (Persian)Farsi (Persian)

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Ian Davies: I think you mean 'show' not 'shoe'!
7 hrs
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11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
to put on a brave face


Explanation:
This could refer to self-possession; pulling yourself together (recovering control of your emotions), putting on a brave face (masking your discomfort) and going on to do whatever you need to do despite unfavorable circumstances.

Katya Kesten
Russian Federation
Local time: 14:43
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: Although that would be logical and reflect the usual meaning of this expression, it seems at odds with Asker's explanation of the apparent intended meaning here.
3 hrs
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35 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Put on an act or pretend


Explanation:
Hard to be exact without knowing more of the context but in s social gathering it usually means that someone pretends to like or no oapprove of somoeone or something even when the opposite is true

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 37 mins (2019-09-26 23:25:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

SO, they are putting on a show or trying really hard to hide their dislike or disapproval



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 days (2019-10-03 14:26:55 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Glad to have helped and happy you weren't led astray by some of the "fake news"

For the record, and without typos now I'm finally home again, there is no way that the expression "make a brave show" could mean that she is the most beautiful here. So, if the latter is what the Russian means, this expression is incorrectly used.



Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 12:43
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 253
Grading comment
Thank you so much for your help

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  AJ Ablooglu: In the above sentence “even so” makes me wonder if something went wrong at the social outing and this lady pretended to be unaffected from it.
7 hrs
  -> Thank you. yes, that is also possible. We don't have enough context to know Why she is putting on a show but anyway, the source text does not mean this.//typo in my first line as it should be "pretend to like and not disapprove of..."

disagree  philgoddard: No, see my discussion note.//Mikhail says the Russian means she was the most beautiful woman there. I'm saying it has been correctly translated.
9 hrs
  -> no, you (and David) are absolutely wrong//I think if Mikhail , a native Russian, gives the meaning of the source text as something else, we should accept that
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Reference comments


2 days 19 hrs
Reference: был кто лучше там собою

Reference information:
Это из либретто к опере "Пиковая дама".

Строка "Well, even so, none made a braver show than she."
соответствует строке на русском "Ну, и что же, Был кто лучше там собою?"

Либретто на английском:
https://www.opera-arias.com/tchaikovsky/the-queen-of-spades/...

Либретто на русском:
http://lukianpovorotov.narod.ru/Folder_SongBook/CL/Pikovaya_...
извините за простоту и спасибо за отзів на форуме)

Vladyslav Golovaty
Ukraine
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Note to reference poster
Asker: This is precisely the translation I am checking the accuracy of.

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