both in church and chapel

English translation: both in the Church of England and non-conformist churches

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English term or phrase:	both in church and chapel
Selected answer:	both in the Church of England and non-conformist churches
Entered by:	David Knowles

18:34 Jan 19, 2005

English language (monolingual) [PRO]
Art/Literary - Religion / 19th century text

English term or phrase: both in church and chapel

The plain practical point, whether they love their neighbor, as the Samaritan loved the traveler in the parable, and can spare any time and trouble to do him good, is a point they never touch with one of their fingers. In too many English parishes, both in town and country, true love seems almost dead, ***both in church and chapel***, and wretched party-spirit and controversy are the only fruits that Christianity appears able to produce.

This is from "Practical Religion", by JC Ryle, a famous anglican bishop.

Do you think 'chapel' here refers to protestant churches, and 'church' means 'Church of England'?

Ana Juliá KudoZ activity Questions: 3922 (none open) (22 closed without grading) Answers: 1027 Spain
Local time: 20:13

Yes, but I'd say "non-conformist" rather than "protestant"

Explanation:
Church is the established church (Church of England) and Chapel the non-conformist churches, such as Methodists or Baptists. Both are "protestant" in that they are not Roman Catholic, although some parts of the C of E consider themselves Catholic.

Selected response from:

David Knowles
Local time: 19:13

Grading comment

Thanks!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED

5 +13

Yes, but I'd say "non-conformist" rather than "protestant"

David Knowles

3 +3

in main churches and smaller community ones

Alaa Zeineldine

church and chapel

James Girard

Answers

3 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +13

Yes, but I'd say "non-conformist" rather than "protestant"

David Knowles
Local time: 19:13
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 20

Grading comment

Thanks!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Ian Burley (X): Perfect explanation

17 mins

agree

juvera

37 mins

agree

Krisztina Lelik

47 mins

agree

Armorel Young: yes, and non-conformist is the word to use, because Protestant would include the Church of England can be seen

1 hr

agree

Mario Marcolin

3 hrs

agree

DGK T-I: these are particular expressions known in the UK (especially in the 19th century when Ryle was writing) //to Charlie: the C of E has Catholic(NOT RomanCatholic) & Protestant elements,to this day,as David says-it's a hybrid church,or a broad one~

6 hrs

agree

Kirill Semenov

11 hrs

agree

John Bowden: This would be the UK meaning: "(anglican) Church" vs. "(non-conformist) Chapel"

19 hrs

agree

Ian M-H (X)

20 hrs

agree

Charlie Bavington: excellent explanation up to "..not R.C.". No part of the C of E recognises the pope as head of the church (it's the archbish. of Canterbury!), neither does it accept transubstantiation, insist on confession, etc. etc.

23 hrs

-> No, but some CofE pray for the Bishop of Rome and ignore Canterbury. Also see Urbanist below. Look at www.allsaintsmargaretstreet.org.uk and www.stmarythevirgin.org.uk

agree

Will Matter

1 day 7 hrs

agree

Joshua Wolfe: Many members of the Ch. of England consider their church Catholic because it is apostolic (i.e. they trace their line of bishops back to the Apostles) -- in informal speech they refer to that other Catholic church as the Romans.

1 day 21 hrs

-> Unfortunately the Romans don't recognise any CofE orders, so it's a one-way street! However, many high anglican priests became RCs when women were admitted to the CofE.

agree

Alfa Trans (X)

3 days 44 mins

57 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +3

in main churches and smaller community ones

Explanation:
This is another possibility. Following the same contrast of urban vs. rural in "town and country", the writer may be indicating that true love seems lost whether in large churches with a large congregation, or in smaller chapels where churchgoers would be closer communities in which people know one another.

Alaa Zeineldine
Egypt
Local time: 20:13
Works in field
Native speaker of:

Arabic,

English

1 hr confidence:

church and chapel

Explanation:
I think 'church' may refer to the religious idea, and 'chapel' may refer to the roof under which that idea is practised. It's a loose idiom but works very well in this context.

James Girard
Germany
Local time: 20:13
Native speaker of: English

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English translation: both in the Church of England and non-conformist churches

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