Looking for a term...

English translation: Deregister

02:35 Nov 17, 2005
English to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
English term or phrase: Looking for a term...
First this little article from Wikipedia and then my question.
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Propiska (Russian ÏÐÎÏÈÑÊÀ) - "The record of place of residence". It was designed to control internal population movement by binding a person to his or her permanent place of residence.
The noun derives from the Russian verb "propisat" ("to write into") — originally meaning to write a passport into a registration book of the given local office. The initial 1930s decree on propiska demanded to register documents, not the people. Later, "propiska" became an official term. Formally, none of the three Soviet Constitutions prohibited citizens from moving across the country. However, the internal militsiya decrees on propiska were practically regarded as the highest legislation. The propiska was to be recorded both in the internal passport of the citizens of the Soviet Union and at the local governmental office.

The propiska system was similar to the Tsarist internal passport system, which had been viewed as a tyrannical means of controlling population movements in the Russian Empire. The Bolsheviks abolished the internal passport system in 1917, but Joseph Stalin reinstated it in December 1932.

Under the Soviet regime, a valid propiska was required to apply for jobs, to get married, to receive medical treatment, and in many other situations. At the same time, it was almost impossible to get a local propiska in a major city without having a job, constituting a sort of catch 22.

Residency permits were extremely difficult for migrants to obtain in large cities, especially Moscow, and were a matter of prestige.

Certain "risk groups", such as dissidents, Roma and former Gulag inmates, were often barred from getting permits in Moscow and some other major cities.

However, many people used subterfuge to get Moscow residency permits, including fake marriages and bribery. Another way of obtaining Moscow residency was to become a limitchik, i.e., to enter Moscow to take certain understaffed job positions, e.g., at strategic plants or at construction works, according to a certain workforce quota ("limit").
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Now back to my question. The system is still there though it has changed. An individual must register when he comes to a new place of residence (like checking in when you come to a hotel). The opposite process is taking place when an individual wants to leave his permanent place of residence (like cheking out from a hotel.

QUESTION: What term can be used if you want to, so to say, "unregister"? This question has been discussed in the Russian-English pair but I'd like to ask this question here as well. It's not really important if you know or don't know the details about the historical aspect of the registration system. It's a matter of finding a proper word as this translation will be used for the court hearing.
Mark Vaintroub
Canada
Local time: 15:13
English translation:Deregister
Explanation:
Provided the context makes it clear that the reference is to the place of residence, "deregister" is fairly commonly used.

[DOC] 530
Formato de archivo: Microsoft Word 2000 - Versión en HTML
(obligation to register and deregister permanent residence. and to register change
of address of residence). Individual persons must register their ...
www.mnz.si/en/upl/zak_min/uunz/ZPPrebAngl.doc - Páginas similares

[PDF] Are you a returnee or thinking of returning?
Formato de archivo: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Versión en HTML
Do you have to personally deregister residence from your place of displacement.
and register in your place of return? You do not need to deregister ...
www.unhcr.ba/protection/laic/LEAFLE~1.pdf - Páginas similares

IND Verblijfwijzer Procedure - [ Traduzca esta página ]
You must deregister with the municipality and hand in your residence permit.
In some cases you will be eligible for a remigration arrangement. ...
www.ind.nl/EN/verblijfwijzer/verblijfwijzer_ mijnsituatie.asp?proc=komen&lang=en&duur=1&proced... - 10k - 14 Nov 2005 - En caché - Páginas similares

Residence Registration - Munich - [ Traduzca esta página ]
When leaving you have to deregister again. In German: Abmeldung ... you just go
to the residence bureau (Einwohnermeldeamt) and say you need to pick up a ...
www.toytownmunich.com/wiki/Residence_Registration - 12k - En caché - Páginas similares

muenchen.de - Administration Forms - [ Traduzca esta página ]
Forms for residence permit and change of residency in Munich. ... If you wish to
move away from Munich, the law requires you to deregister with the local ...
www.muenchen.de/Stadtleben/Essential_Information/ 37064/03aadministrationforms.html - 63k - 15 Nov 2005 -

...although if used in isolation its meaning would be ambiguous.

Andy
Selected response from:

Andy Watkinson
Spain
Local time: 21:13
Grading comment
This is the term that I am going to use. Having discussed it with the attorney, we both came to the conclusion that this term would be the best one to use with a footnote describing the meaning of this term.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +13Deregister
Andy Watkinson
4 +1cancel one's registration
KNielsen
3 +2comment
Ken Cox
3official register one's new address
RHELLER
4 -2Declare null and void/annul
Anna Maria Augustine at proZ.com (X)


Discussion entries: 8





  

Answers


13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -2
looking for a term...
Declare null and void/annul


Explanation:
I have read all this and had a think about it, then checked the enyclopedia and this seems to fit a legal context.

Anna Maria Augustine at proZ.com (X)
France
Local time: 21:13
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Armorel Young: to comment on your suggestion of null and void, that means that it was never valid in the first place - that's completely different from having a valid registration but simply cancelling it because you move away
5 hrs
  -> annul means to cancel. Why don't you read all the answer?

disagree  Ian M-H (X): To annul also means to make or declare void or invalid, i.e. to nullify - so Armorel's objection holds for both your suggested answers
8 hrs
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15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +13
looking for a term...
Deregister


Explanation:
Provided the context makes it clear that the reference is to the place of residence, "deregister" is fairly commonly used.

[DOC] 530
Formato de archivo: Microsoft Word 2000 - Versión en HTML
(obligation to register and deregister permanent residence. and to register change
of address of residence). Individual persons must register their ...
www.mnz.si/en/upl/zak_min/uunz/ZPPrebAngl.doc - Páginas similares

[PDF] Are you a returnee or thinking of returning?
Formato de archivo: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Versión en HTML
Do you have to personally deregister residence from your place of displacement.
and register in your place of return? You do not need to deregister ...
www.unhcr.ba/protection/laic/LEAFLE~1.pdf - Páginas similares

IND Verblijfwijzer Procedure - [ Traduzca esta página ]
You must deregister with the municipality and hand in your residence permit.
In some cases you will be eligible for a remigration arrangement. ...
www.ind.nl/EN/verblijfwijzer/verblijfwijzer_ mijnsituatie.asp?proc=komen&lang=en&duur=1&proced... - 10k - 14 Nov 2005 - En caché - Páginas similares

Residence Registration - Munich - [ Traduzca esta página ]
When leaving you have to deregister again. In German: Abmeldung ... you just go
to the residence bureau (Einwohnermeldeamt) and say you need to pick up a ...
www.toytownmunich.com/wiki/Residence_Registration - 12k - En caché - Páginas similares

muenchen.de - Administration Forms - [ Traduzca esta página ]
Forms for residence permit and change of residency in Munich. ... If you wish to
move away from Munich, the law requires you to deregister with the local ...
www.muenchen.de/Stadtleben/Essential_Information/ 37064/03aadministrationforms.html - 63k - 15 Nov 2005 -

...although if used in isolation its meaning would be ambiguous.

Andy

Andy Watkinson
Spain
Local time: 21:13
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
This is the term that I am going to use. Having discussed it with the attorney, we both came to the conclusion that this term would be the best one to use with a footnote describing the meaning of this term.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tsogt Gombosuren
24 mins
  -> Thanks Tsogt

agree  Tania Marques-Cardoso
5 hrs
  -> Gracias Tania

agree  Jack Doughty
5 hrs
  -> H Jack, Thanks. Russia, of course, is "right up your street". :-)

agree  Armorel Young
5 hrs
  -> Thanks Amorel

agree  Rachel Fell
6 hrs
  -> Thanks Rachel

agree  Ian M-H (X)
8 hrs
  -> Thanks Ian

agree  Brie Vernier
9 hrs
  -> Thanks Brie

neutral  RHELLER: not one English reference? Hi Andy, I think we need to be more creative than just taking words from non-natives - these are the true challenges of translation - translating the cultural notions that are behind the words
12 hrs
  -> Hi Rita. Of course not. Do you have to register your place of residence in the US, UK, etc..? //1. You assume the translations were done by "non-natives" - Evidence? ".2. It's not notifying the new address, but cancelling registration of the previous one.

agree  Cristina Chaplin
14 hrs
  -> Gracias Awana

agree  Vladimir Dubisskiy: there is no need for Enlgish refernce as the concept is totally "unEnglish'. But that's what it is. Clear and concise.Myslef I have used this word when explaining this issue to many English native speakers and have never had a problem with understanding.
14 hrs
  -> Thankfully "unEnglish", as you put it, Vladimir. A practical demonstration

agree  Nick Lingris: Deregister is in the OED (examples 1924-1971) and thousands of UK sites (as both deregister and de-register). E.g. http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?topicId=10...
15 hrs
  -> What's a hyphen between friends? :-) Thanks Nick

agree  juvera: The references have to be non-native, because there is no such regstration in the UK. You get 'registered' on the 'electoral register' if you are entitled to vote. That's the nearest you get to be officially recognised to be living at a certain address.
20 hrs
  -> Nick has found UK sites. I must admit I couldn't. The "concept", however, is unEnglish, as you and Vladimir point out.

agree  chopra_2002
1 day 5 hrs
  -> Thanks langclinic

agree  TranslateThis: Totally agree. To Rita: *deregister* can be found in many dictionaries, one of them being Reader's Digest Oxford Complete Wordfinder
10 days
  -> Thanks TT.
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
looking for a term...
comment


Explanation:
One reason for the difficulty of finding a translation is that formal registration of one's place of residence is not normally required in any English-speaking countries (and certainly not in historical practice), so the related terms don't exist in normal language. It's interesting to note that all the references cited for 'deregister' are translations, and IMO 'deregsiter' is a coinage, although possibly a legitimate one.

For the action on the part of the person who is moving (or wishes to move), a formulation such as 'give notice of a change of residence' or 'request a change in the registered place of residence' could also be used. The first implies that the person can simply change residence on his or her on initiative, which was probably not the case in Soviet Russia; the second implies that official approval is required for a change of residence.

For the action on the part of the person(s) who maintain the register(s), a formulation such as 'delete the registration' could be used, although that implies that the information is removed from the registry (probably not the case). A more elaborate formulation would be 'revise the registration to note that the person is no longer resident' or 'mark the registration as "no longer resident" (which probably reflects the actual practice).



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Note added at 11 hrs 11 mins (2005-11-17 13:47:07 GMT)
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In response to the asker's further explanation:
For the entry in the passport, I'd suggest 'revise the (registered) place of residence', but not 'deregister', because the result of deregistration is that you are no longer registered, and presumably nobody was/is allowed to have no registered place of residence. You could also say that the previously entry is voided and a new entry is made.
As for the records maintained by the passport offices, if the registration entry by one office is annulled (deregistered) and a new registration is made in a different office by an unrelated official, with some finite amount of elapsed time between the two acts (similar to the system used in Germany and the Netherlands, for instance), you could say 'deregister' (and correspondly 're-register'). If the offices effectively have a single shared (common) registry, you could also use 'deregister' for the act of nullifying the previous registration, but you could equally well say 'revise the registered place of residence' for the entire process of deregistration and re-registration.
In short: I'm not sure that 'deregister' is the ideal solution for your case. Deregistration implies that the registration effectively no longer exists (although the record may still exist). If the registration still exists and the only change is that the place of residence has changed (I hope you follow my logic), and the change is made in a single act, 'revise' would be more appropriate IMO.

Ken Cox
Local time: 21:13
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Andy Watkinson: Quite right, Kenneth - fortunately, this requirement is not common practice in English-speaking countries, which explains the "foreign" references. It's obviously preferable to avoid "coining" words if possible - but the need to be concise prevails....
5 hrs

agree  RHELLER: well said :-)
7 hrs
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
looking for a term...
official register one's new address


Explanation:
in the U.S. when we move, we want the post office to forward our mail. We fill out a form with our new address, called a "change of address" form.

HTH

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Note added at 3 hrs 18 mins (2005-11-17 05:54:04 GMT)
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sorry, OFFICIALLY register

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Note added at 13 hrs 34 mins (2005-11-17 16:10:13 GMT)
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To Andy (no more room for peer comments): Please don't take the neutral personally. I consider the evolution of the English language a serious issue; I don't think native speakers should allow non-natives to create English words willy-nilly.
Only one of the references was available - the Munich one - which is written in childish English.
In the U.S. the act of "changing one's residence" automatically cancels out the old one, since the post office will not allow 2 addresses. In the interest of efficiency, we simply do not refer to the intermediary act of cancelling out the first one, but it is assumed.

RHELLER
United States
Local time: 13:13
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
looking for a term...
cancel one's registration


Explanation:
...and then re-register at the new place. This is the most succinct way I can think of to say it; I think we tend to say it a bit more wordily, eg, "to notify the xxx office/authorities of a change in residence."

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Note added at 1 day 5 hrs 12 mins (2005-11-18 07:47:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think that basically what you will have to decide is if you want to make this a one-word term, at all costs, since (as people have pointed out), a word describing this process doesn't exist in English since the practise doesn't exist in English-speaking countries. If translating the idea into a single word is important above all else, then you could use something like "deregister" and the meaning will probably be conveyed effectively enough. However, it doesn't sound like "real" English, to my ears; it strikes me as a bit of a foreign-sounding stop-gap type of word, if that makes sense. I think if you want to convey the idea in English that sounds natural to native speakers, you will have to be a little more wordy--use a phrase that describes the process as succinctly as possible.

KNielsen
Japan
Local time: 04:13
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Joshua Wolfe: I agree it is a choice between using one word, deregister, or you wish t emphasize the foreign aspect, I suggest using K.Nielsen's formulation initially, and then deregister subsequently.
2 days 16 hrs
  -> Thanks, Urbanist.
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