Ms. or Mrs.

English translation: Dr.

16:16 Jan 23, 2013
English language (monolingual) [Non-PRO]
Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
English term or phrase: Ms. or Mrs.
Article about a prominent female scientist, am not sure of the latest PC edicts in this regard.
For e.g. "Frau Prof. Dr. Daisy von Entenhausen" I would simply drop the Frau bit in my translation.
However, it often comes up as "Frau von Entenhausen", am unsure whether Ms. or Mrs. is more appropriate here. Heaven forbid I should irk the PC police....
Thanks for your input.
Jonathan MacKerron
Selected answer:Dr.
Explanation:
In my opinion, even if the German leaves the title off, I would use the title. The person has earned it and it was used once, so I would put the title in there whenever the original has "Frau SoundSo."

Of course, you should also put a note to the client on this.

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Note added at 20 mins (2013-01-23 16:37:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Yeah, my wife is a physician and I was NEVER Der Herr Doktor, but if *I* were the physician, she would ALWAYS have been Die Frau Doktor. Oh, well, I will just have to content myself with all my other talents :)
Selected response from:

jccantrell
United States
Local time: 15:04
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED
4 +5Dr.
jccantrell
4 +1Neither, just "Prof."
B D Finch
4 +1Ms., but just the last name or professor whenever possible.
Jenni Lukac (X)
4Drop it altogether
Paul Lambert


Discussion entries: 8





  

Answers


8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
ms. or mrs.
Dr.


Explanation:
In my opinion, even if the German leaves the title off, I would use the title. The person has earned it and it was used once, so I would put the title in there whenever the original has "Frau SoundSo."

Of course, you should also put a note to the client on this.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 mins (2013-01-23 16:37:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Yeah, my wife is a physician and I was NEVER Der Herr Doktor, but if *I* were the physician, she would ALWAYS have been Die Frau Doktor. Oh, well, I will just have to content myself with all my other talents :)

jccantrell
United States
Local time: 15:04
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Yes, was also a bit baffled that they left it out, will ask the contractor what gives here - thx.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tina Vonhof: And never Mrs., since many women in academia use their maiden name professionally, not their married name.
38 mins

agree  Jean-Claude Gouin
58 mins

neutral  B D Finch: For a medical doctor, surely it should be Professor XXX MD?
1 hr
  -> Only if you are referring to their teaching/research job. Otherwise, it would be Dr. XXX, imo.

agree  Charles Davis: "Dr" regardless, even if the person is a medical scientist.
2 hrs

neutral  Sven Petersson: Please see my discussion entry above!
3 hrs

agree  katsy
5 hrs

agree  Phong Le
10 hrs
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1 min   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
ms. or mrs.
Ms., but just the last name or professor whenever possible.


Explanation:
This, of course, is an opinion.

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Note added at 3 mins (2013-01-23 16:20:04 GMT)
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Also - when using Ms. (or Mrs.), you should drop the first name and only follow it with the last name.

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Note added at 30 mins (2013-01-23 16:47:06 GMT)
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Jonathan: you're very safe with Ms. Everyone is so used to it now that even the "PC" label has worn off.

Jenni Lukac (X)
Local time: 00:04
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 7
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks - so either way we can agree on "Ms."?


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jocelyne S: Agree entirely. Use either first name or Ms., not both (e.g. Janice Smith or Ms. Smith; Professor Janice Smith works too, although somewhat wordy). Personally (were I a Smith), I would prefer to be referred to as Prof. Smith, slightly more prestigious.
4 mins
  -> Thanks, Jocelyne. We don't stack them together in English. As you say, whatever could be considered most prestigious in the context (Dr., Professor, although a lot of the English-language academic journals I translate for lop off both Dr. and Prof...)

neutral  Sven Petersson: "Ms." could, in U.K. English, create the impression that the lady is a surgeon. - Addendum and explanation: An MD changes title from "Dr." to "Mr." resp "Ms." if he/she becomes a consultant (Oberartz) surgeon.
4 hrs
  -> http://www.informatics.sussex.ac.uk/department/docs/punctuat... Just like "Dr" in American English could be confused with a medical doctor, although it's used for other disciplines.
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45 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
ms. or mrs.
Drop it altogether


Explanation:
Another option, but not the only one:
Drop the Mrs, miss, ms, mr altogether.
Writing out the full first name always indicates a woman, while men abbreviate their first names with initials.

Thus, J. Smith might be "John Smith" but never "Jane Smith", who would always have her first name in full, and then subsequently be referred to by her first name, "Jane" while "John Smith" would subsequently be called "Smith".

Paul Lambert
Sweden
Local time: 00:04
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  B D Finch: Women also often use initials rather than their first names. When I was at university, 30 years or so ago, the formula you suggest was used by the University of London and I found the assumption that "normal" people were male absolutely insulting to women
1 hr
  -> Thank you. In spite of the precision and efficiency of that convention, I presume that you would suggest yet another solution. Perhaps Jonathan should just be resigned to the fact that it is impossible to please everyone.
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
ms. or mrs.
Neither, just "Prof."


Explanation:
In English one would never combine Ms, Mr or Mrs with "Prof". Also, one assumes that a Professor is a Dr. but you would never use both titles, only the more important one. The Dr bit can be made clear if their quals are listed after their name.

For a woman who is neither a professor nor a doctor, use Ms unless you know she would prefer a different form of address.

B D Finch
France
Local time: 00:04
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Sven Petersson: Just "Prof." would be the safest in U.K. English.
2 hrs
  -> thanks Sven
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