warns of \'pockets of risk\' to growing £200bn consumer debt pile

15:36 Mar 13, 2018 

I'm sorry, but I am having trouble following your logic: on the one hand, you poo-poo my suggestion that the difference between 'pocket' and 'zone' is important — then you go on to say that both 'poche' and 'zone' are indeed used in FR, just as they clearly are in EN.
Surely that's the end of the story, and Asker has their answer: it is possible to directly translate the source term into FR and maintain the same distinction that exists in EN.

15:22 Mar 13, 2018 

Yes, that's what I mean.

15:12 Mar 13, 2018 

Germaine does not say, nor even "imply", that "consumer credit is potentially at risk" ("le crédit à la consommation pourrait être à risque") when she suggests that "La Banque d’Angleterre met en garde contre les zones de risque [liées] [rattachées] à la [dette à la consommation croissante].... S.v.p., ne pas confondre "pockets of risk to... consumer debt" et "consumer credit risk" (ma seconde intervention). Et malgré ce que tu avances, je ne vois toujours pas de différence marquée ("significant and important") entre zone et poche en français.

Amandine s'inquiète de ce que "poches de risque existe mais est très peu utilisé". Si ce que tu veux dire depuis le début, c'est qu'il faut quand même traduire "pockets" par "poches", pourquoi diable ne pas le dire clairement plutôt que de lancer cette rhétorique nébuleuse et alors même que je souligne qu'il "est difficile de réfuter l'expression poches de risques"?

Je me demande parfois si l'objectif des Kudoz consiste à aider un confrère/une consoeur ou à tourner en bourrique ceux et celles qui cherchent à aider. Et ça, vraiment, c'est poche!

07:02 Mar 13, 2018 

By the way, I am clearly reading this differently from everyone else, so do be wary — even if finance is certainly not my speciality, I have translated a number of documents in this and related fields, and have also read a lot of article as part of my general culture.

I don't think this is 'risk to consumer credit' in the sense that consumer credit is potentially at risk.
Quite the reverse, in fact: I believe it means that financial institutions etc. are exposed to risks from certain 'pockets' of this massive credit mountain — presumably, particular sectors where the risk of default is higher than usual. I believe this is what NJ Weatherdon was also saying, although I find their explanation a little hard to follow.

06:58 Mar 13, 2018 

That's exactly my point! I didn't say there was a difference between FR and EN, what I said was that there is a difference between the 2 terms in EN, and I would assume in FR too, as you have kindly confirmed.
The number of Google hits means very little — the term 'pockets of risk' is less common in FR, as you have shown; but it would be likewise less common in EN.
All I am insisting on is that it is important to maintain the distinction that the writer clearly made deliberately.

05:49 Mar 13, 2018 

The "debt pile" is a "consumer debt pile".
The pockets of risk affect the growing pile of consumer debt.

05:45 Mar 13, 2018 

Je ne vois pas l'importante différence entre l'anglais et le français:
Pocket - A small often isolated area or group: pockets of unemployment (Webster)
Poche - Domaine, secteur limité où se manifeste un phénomène politique, économique, social : quelques poches de résistance (Larousse)
Area: the scope of a concept, operation, or activity (Webster);A subject or range of activity or interest: the key areas of science (Oxford)
Zone: Portion d'un espace abstrait, d'un domaine d'activité : Il y a dans sa vie quelques zones sombres. Zone d'influence. (Larousse)

Les "poches de résistance" du Larousse peuvent parfaitement se comparer aux (petites et grandes) zones de résistance citées par la commission Brunner, Jean Gallian et d'autres.

Je ne comprends pas votre point. Le contexte est bancaire et ce contexte utilise:
"zones de risques" banque = 168 000 ghits
"zones de risques" banque consommation: 130 000 ghits
"poches de risques" banque = 39 000 ghits
"poches de risques" banque consommation = 29 800 ghits

03:01 Mar 13, 2018 

There are pockets of risk.

There is a 200 billion debt pile.

The debt pile is growing.

The pockets of risk can affect the growing pile of debt.

It is not clear whether the "pockets of risk" are specifically some sub-part of that debt pile, or some other thing which may influence whatever bad stuff may happen if things develop poorly in relation to one or more sub-parts of the debt pile.

For example, maybe there is a specific grouping of debt that tends to be held or owed by a particular group, for example a certain group suffering negative effects of a particular kind of shock, and specific financial institutions which are particularly exposed to that, in a way that could develop more broadly.

And that he warns about it because those "pockets of risk" are potentially of specific concern right now.

20:36 Mar 12, 2018 

In EN, the difference is significant and important, and surely there must be some means of making that same difference in le langage de Molière ?

Another example might be 'pockets of resistance' in a 'war zone'. Now there you'd HAVE to find 2 different terms for it, wouldn't you?

20:18 Mar 12, 2018 

Essayez de voir ce qu'est une "zone de risque" dans le langage bancaire. Si je me fie à ce que j'ai lu, et à moins d'erreur d'interprétation de ma part, il semble que le crédit à la consommation est une zone de risque définie parmi la masse des risques qui touchent le système bancaire. Appeler ça une "zone" ou une "poche" (terme que je n'écarte pas, d'ailleurs) n'agrandit ni ne réduit en rien le périmètre, tout comme l'expression "poche de gaz" n'indique rien sur la taille de l'amas.

19:22 Mar 12, 2018 

I do think the translation of 'pockets' needs care — the specific use of that term suggests something much more restriocted, isolated, than a much broader 'zones' or 'areas' — it's like "pockets of gas trapped within rock" in geology, for example.

19:02 Mar 12, 2018 

Par ailleurs, la nouvelle est reprise par diverses sources dont les articles peuvent vous sembler plus clairs:
https://www.google.ca/search?q=warns of pockets of risk to g...

Pour ma part, je dirais: La Banque d’Angleterre met en garde contre les zones de risque [liées] [rattachées] à la [dette à la consommation croissante] [dette croissante des ménages au titre de la consommation], qui atteint [déjà] les 200 milliards de livres.

18:42 Mar 12, 2018 

Ce chroniqueur réputé parle de “zones à risque de surchauffe” et l’expression a été reprise par plusieurs sources:
http://blogues.radio-canada.ca/geraldfillion/tag/taux-direct...

La banque d’Angleterre l’a déjà utilisée dans une situation similaire:
http://www.agefi.fr/regulation/actualites/quotidien/20160330...

D’un autre côté, il est difficile de réfuter l’expression “poches de risques” si elle sort vraiment de la bouche du chef économiste de la Banque des règlements internationaux:
https://www.letemps.ch/economie/malgre-nos-efforts-regulatio...
bien que les banques parlent en général de “zones de risques” question crédit à la consommation:
https://www.google.ca/search?ei=isemWp3hM4KG5wLngLHgBA&q="zo...

08:44 Mar 12, 2018 

You seem to be parsing it oddly, which may be hindering comprehension.
'growing' here is just 'croissant' etc. — the "to" really belongs with the 'risk'; not being a financial specialist, in purely linguistic layman's terms I find 'risk to' slightly surprising, but I guess it is correct financial jargon. I would personally have expected something more like 'risk through exposure to...'.