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to the contrary notwithstanding

French translation: nonobstant la disposition contraire dans ...

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:the reference ... to the contrary notwithstanding
French translation:nonobstant la disposition contraire dans ...
Entered by: Tony M
Options:
- Contribute to this entry
- Include in personal glossary

16:32 Nov 29, 2013
English to French translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law: Contract(s)
English term or phrase: to the contrary notwithstanding
With respect to the third sentence of Section 13(c) of this Agreement, the reference therein to Section 12 to the contrary notwithstanding, no consent is given by either party to service of process by telex
legiscriba
Local time: 05:01
nonobstant la stipulation / disposition contraire citée dans ...
Explanation:
The key point here, masked by Asker's parsing, is that it is a specific provision to the contrary, mentioned in the third sentence of Section 13(c), but apparently originating from Section 12.

With the full document in front of her, Asker ought easily to be able to sort out the logic of what is actually going on here — but it is important at least to register the more restrictive nature of 'the reference'.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2013-11-29 18:30:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Please note that I have deliberately used both 'stipulation' and 'disposition' as merely placeholders in the above suggestion, as I am not qualified to judge the nuance of meaning between them; but my primary concern was not with that lexical issue (which is not actually part of the source term), but rather, with the overall structure.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 days (2013-12-08 09:36:02 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

FWIW, here are the main thrusts of Writeaway's criticisms:

"1) It is definitely 'disposition' not 'stipulation'"

I had hoped I had made it clear that I was only giving those 2 terms as place-holders, since they were not directly part of the question term being asked. So, please ignore any reference to 'stipulation'

"2) ...and citée dans isn't what the French legal
texts use in this case. it's definitely wrong. have never
ever encountered it. but tant pis"

Fair enough — again, I was only trying to explain the underlying meaning; it would be so helpful if someone as expert in the subject as Writeaway chose to contribute positively by telling us what it should be!

There is, however, a ray of hope; Writeaway did also say:

"explanation is ok" :-)

So at least we're heading in the right direction!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 days (2013-12-08 09:55:59 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

In the light of the comments mentioned above, I did a Google search for the whole expression "la disposition citée dans"

and I'm pleased to say it did find nearly 2,000 examples, some at least of which are in what seem on the face of it to be broadly relevant contexts; so it seems perhaps it may be valid after all (even if not maybe the commonest way of expressing it):

Les Tribunaux du Travail - Page 75 - Google Books Result

books.google.fr/books?isbn=2763700853

Les Presses de l'Universite Laval - 1961
... et d'experts, demander la présentation de documents et de certificats et exiger la présence des parties à l'audience. (13) Cf. la disposition citée dans la ...

La propriété intellectuelle en droit international privé

books.google.fr/books?isbn=9004179070

Dario Moura Vicente - 2009 - ‎Law

La disposition citée dans le texte établissait:
«1. Les professionnels se conforment uniquement, dans le domaine faisant l'objet d'un rapprochement en vertu de ...

Joint ventures : des noces au divorce: Droit des sociétés, ...

books.google.fr/books?isbn=280442264X

Jean-Matthieu Jonet, ‎Marie Evrard - 2006

(252) L'article 1 696, § l er, du Code judiciaire dispose (en faisant d'ailleurs référence à la disposition citée dans la note précédente) :
« Sans préjudice de ...

Direct Request (CEACR) - adopted 2007, published ...

www.ilo.org › NORMLEX Home › Country profiles‎

... doit être signé en la présence du capitaine ou de la personne responsable, la commission souhaite connaître la source de la disposition citée dans le rapport.

La vérification de l'élimination de l'arme chimique: essai ...

books.google.fr/books?isbn=2877752976

Jocelyn Clerckx - 2001 - ‎Chemical arms control

En attendant, on soulignera que la disposition citée dans ces lignes poursuit un dessein plus politique que réellement juridique. Il ne s'agit pas tant d'établir une ...

Recueil Des Cours: Collected Courses of the Hague Academy of ...

books.google.fr/books?isbn=0792328698

Academie de Droit International de la Haye - 1994 - ‎Law

La Yougoslavie avait à l'époque particulièrement insisté pour l'insertion de la disposition citée dans la Convention, par crainte qu'une éventuelle extension de ...
Selected response from:

Tony M
France
Local time: 05:01
Grading comment
merci infiniment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3 +5nonobstant la stipulation / disposition contraire citée dans ...
Tony M
4 +2nonobstant toute disposition contraire
GILOU
4nonobstant toute stipulation contraire
FX Fraipont


Discussion entries: 17





  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
nonobstant toute stipulation contraire


Explanation:
...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 mins (2013-11-29 16:37:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Code de la construction et de l'habitation. - Article L311-10 ...
http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do;...‎Translate this page
A défaut d'option des parties et nonobstant toute stipulation contraire, le contrat est réputé conclu sous condition résolutoire du refus de la prime ou du prêt."

FX Fraipont
Belgium
Local time: 05:01
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 946

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: It's not quite 'toute' stipulation contraire, it refers to a specific one
44 mins
  -> you're right

neutral  AllegroTrans: with Tony M
3 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

10 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
nonobstant toute disposition contraire


Explanation:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/english_to_french/law:_contracts/8...

GILOU
France
Local time: 05:01
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 861

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: It's not quite 'toute' disposition contraire, it refers to a specific one / I have no problem with 'disposition', the problem is with 'toute'
37 mins
  -> c'est évident que c'est disposition, d'ailleurs votre discussion : notwithstanding the provision = disposition

agree  writeaway: disposition -provision. The previous answer was spot on.
54 mins

agree  Bertrand Leduc
2 hrs

agree  mchd
2 hrs

neutral  AllegroTrans: with Tony M
3 hrs

disagree  Daryo: there's nothing in the ST to be translated by "toute" // poetic license has no place in legalese
8 hrs
  -> Je ne vois pas en quoi toute est de la poésie....
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +5
the reference ... to the contrary notwithstanding
nonobstant la stipulation / disposition contraire citée dans ...


Explanation:
The key point here, masked by Asker's parsing, is that it is a specific provision to the contrary, mentioned in the third sentence of Section 13(c), but apparently originating from Section 12.

With the full document in front of her, Asker ought easily to be able to sort out the logic of what is actually going on here — but it is important at least to register the more restrictive nature of 'the reference'.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2013-11-29 18:30:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Please note that I have deliberately used both 'stipulation' and 'disposition' as merely placeholders in the above suggestion, as I am not qualified to judge the nuance of meaning between them; but my primary concern was not with that lexical issue (which is not actually part of the source term), but rather, with the overall structure.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 days (2013-12-08 09:36:02 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

FWIW, here are the main thrusts of Writeaway's criticisms:

"1) It is definitely 'disposition' not 'stipulation'"

I had hoped I had made it clear that I was only giving those 2 terms as place-holders, since they were not directly part of the question term being asked. So, please ignore any reference to 'stipulation'

"2) ...and citée dans isn't what the French legal
texts use in this case. it's definitely wrong. have never
ever encountered it. but tant pis"

Fair enough — again, I was only trying to explain the underlying meaning; it would be so helpful if someone as expert in the subject as Writeaway chose to contribute positively by telling us what it should be!

There is, however, a ray of hope; Writeaway did also say:

"explanation is ok" :-)

So at least we're heading in the right direction!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 days (2013-12-08 09:55:59 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

In the light of the comments mentioned above, I did a Google search for the whole expression "la disposition citée dans"

and I'm pleased to say it did find nearly 2,000 examples, some at least of which are in what seem on the face of it to be broadly relevant contexts; so it seems perhaps it may be valid after all (even if not maybe the commonest way of expressing it):

Les Tribunaux du Travail - Page 75 - Google Books Result

books.google.fr/books?isbn=2763700853

Les Presses de l'Universite Laval - 1961
... et d'experts, demander la présentation de documents et de certificats et exiger la présence des parties à l'audience. (13) Cf. la disposition citée dans la ...

La propriété intellectuelle en droit international privé

books.google.fr/books?isbn=9004179070

Dario Moura Vicente - 2009 - ‎Law

La disposition citée dans le texte établissait:
«1. Les professionnels se conforment uniquement, dans le domaine faisant l'objet d'un rapprochement en vertu de ...

Joint ventures : des noces au divorce: Droit des sociétés, ...

books.google.fr/books?isbn=280442264X

Jean-Matthieu Jonet, ‎Marie Evrard - 2006

(252) L'article 1 696, § l er, du Code judiciaire dispose (en faisant d'ailleurs référence à la disposition citée dans la note précédente) :
« Sans préjudice de ...

Direct Request (CEACR) - adopted 2007, published ...

www.ilo.org › NORMLEX Home › Country profiles‎

... doit être signé en la présence du capitaine ou de la personne responsable, la commission souhaite connaître la source de la disposition citée dans le rapport.

La vérification de l'élimination de l'arme chimique: essai ...

books.google.fr/books?isbn=2877752976

Jocelyn Clerckx - 2001 - ‎Chemical arms control

En attendant, on soulignera que la disposition citée dans ces lignes poursuit un dessein plus politique que réellement juridique. Il ne s'agit pas tant d'établir une ...

Recueil Des Cours: Collected Courses of the Hague Academy of ...

books.google.fr/books?isbn=0792328698

Academie de Droit International de la Haye - 1994 - ‎Law

La Yougoslavie avait à l'époque particulièrement insisté pour l'insertion de la disposition citée dans la Convention, par crainte qu'une éventuelle extension de ...

Tony M
France
Local time: 05:01
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 140
Grading comment
merci infiniment

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  AllegroTrans
11 mins
  -> Thanks, C!

agree  Carole Salas
45 mins
  -> Merci, Carole !

agree  Daryo: yes, parsing needs to be improved first ...
7 hrs
  -> Merci, Daryo !

neutral  GILOU: to the contrary notwithstanding. Je ne vois pas d'où cela sort : citée dans
16 hrs
  -> 'referred to in the third sentence of Section 13'

agree  xxxPh_B
17 hrs
  -> Merci Ph_B !

agree  Christian Fournier
19 hrs
  -> Merci, Christian !
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




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Changes made by editors
Dec 8, 2013 - Changes made by Tony M:
Created KOG entryKudoZ term » KOG term


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