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UK, non-UK

French translation: located in or outside the UK

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10:30 Nov 18, 2006
English to French translations [PRO]
Bus/Financial - Linguistics / cabinet d'arbitrage international
English term or phrase: UK, non-UK
Doute : dans les phrases ci-dessous, est-ce que UK, non-UK veut dire britannique, non britannique ou en Grande-Bretagne et hors Grande-Bretagne ? (question qui s'adresserait à priori plutôt à des anglophones) :

"We act for companies, wherever they are based, which are spreading equity participation to their UK and non-UK employees."

"Our clients include UK and non-UK employers".
Emérentienne
France
Local time: 00:38
French translation:located in or outside the UK
Explanation:
Wel, I'm going to fly in the face of the majoirty here and say that, even though the expression is indavisedly ambiguous, I actually lean much more towards the geographic location interpretation.

For one thing, 'UK' is not officially a nationality, but a place. Officially, people would be British, or else English (etc.); the only real exception to this is usually when talking about 'UK citizens', for example.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to assume that they are talking about 2 different situations relevant to those employees working both within, or outside the UK, and I feel that the Race Relations Board might have something to say if we suggested different equity sharing arrangement for British and non-British nationals!

In the second occurrence, it seems to me even more clear-cut: obviously employers may be based in the UK or outside it; how otherwise could we interpret an employer as being non-UK — surely not by their nationality?! Especially since employers would be regarded as organisations rather than persons, and so not exactly have a 'ntaionality' as such — except in respect of where they are based!

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Note added at 1 hr (2006-11-18 11:38:23 GMT)
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And of course, you wanted the French translation, and for me the "bottom line" as David puts it is that 'britannique' is NOT IMHO suitable, and I would stick to the R-U / hors R-U (which at least has the merit of retaining some of the original's ambiguity!)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2006-11-18 12:22:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

As I see it, they are talking about 4 possible permutations:

A UK-based company with staff working in the UK
A UK-based company with staff working abroad
A company based outside the UK, but with staff working in the UK
A company based outside the UK, where the staff also work outside the UK.

Of course' based' for the company and 'working' for the staff may not necessarily be where they physically are at any given moment in time, but simply where they are legally regarded as working for tax etc. purposes.

So I am a British national, working outside the UK, and paying taxes in France; to me, that makes me a 'non-UK freelancer'
Selected response from:

Tony M
France
Local time: 00:38
Grading comment
Merci à tous, j'ai choisi cette réponse plutôt que celle de l'identité mais le client n'a tjrs rien confirmé...
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +5located in or outside the UK
Tony M
4 +3...employés au royaume-uni ou à l'étranger
sylver
2 +5britanniques ou non britanniques
cjohnstone
4 +2royaume-uni, hors royaume-uni
David Hollywood
4au Royaume Uni ou ailleurs
Christine HOUDY
4...
xxxcmwilliams


Discussion entries: 9





  

Answers


5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
uk, non-uk
royaume-uni, hors royaume-uni


Explanation:
&P Secteur GIF: Actions Europe hors Royaume-Uni. Performance*. Libellé, S&P Etoiles S&P, S&P Notation, Frais de Gestion Annuels, 1 An, Rang Quartile, 3 ans ...
fr.biz.yahoo.com/mutualfunds/general/fz102.html - 23k - Cached - Similar pages

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Note added at 9 mins (2006-11-18 10:40:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"britannique" is ok but strictly speaking the UK includes Northern Ireland (otherwise Great Britain = England, Scotland and Wales minus Northern Ireland) ... if you include NI, it's the United Kingdom = UK (hope I'm not being too pedantic here :)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 mins (2006-11-18 10:41:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Nombre de cas d'encéphalopathie spongiforme bovine (ESB) signalés chez les bovins d'élevage dans le monde*, hors Royaume-Uni Mise à jour : 14.11.2006 (fr) ...
www.oie.int/fr/info/fr_esbmonde.htm - 86k - Cached - Similar pages

Incidence annuelle de l'ESB dans le monde hors Royaume-Uni- [ Translate this page ]Taux d'incidence* annuelle de l'encéphalopathie spongiforme bovine (ESB) dans les Pays Membres de l'OIE ayant signalé des cas, hors Royaume-Uni ...
www.oie.int/fr/info/fr_esbincidence.htm - 66k - Cached - Similar pages

Boursorama - Palmarès OPCVM- [ Translate this page ]... Actions Europe hors Royaume-Uni, Actions Europe hors Zone Euro, Actions Finlande ... Petites Sociétés Europe, Petites Sociétés Europe hors Roy-Uni ...
www.boursorama.com/opcvm/palmares.phtml?CATEGORIE=102 - 84k - Cached - Similar pages



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 mins (2006-11-18 10:46:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

the bottom line is that "britannique" is fine in an international context

David Hollywood
Local time: 19:38
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Francine Alloncle
14 mins
  -> merci Francine :)

neutral  writeaway: we tend to use the word "in" if geographic location is meant./neutral if far from a disagree.just not sure either."We act for companies, wherever they are based, which are spreading equity participation to their UK and non-UK employees" =nationality?
30 mins
  -> there is and remains a certain degree of ambiguity as to nationality and you're right to make the point (a tricky one for sure) .. I would still say that non-UK would indicate non-national but not so sure as I would like to be :)

agree  xxxPFB: mais "Royaume-Uni" (majuscules)
1 hr
  -> merci Philippe et majuscules :)
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25 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +5
uk, non-uk
britanniques ou non britanniques


Explanation:
iéde parce que pas clair, soit c'est de nationalité ou soit résidents au RU
alors cette formule reste ambigue à souhait!!!

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Note added at 27 mins (2006-11-18 10:57:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

j'ai mis low or medium mais je crois la voie à suivre

cjohnstone
France
Local time: 00:38
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  writeaway: mais oui. nothing to with where they ARE but with where they are FROM. "We act for companies, wherever they are based .. UK and non-UK employees."
4 mins
  -> and wherewithall! ouaf thks

agree  Sylvia Smith: yes, I also agree with writeaway that this addresses where they are FROM
59 mins
  -> thks

agree  xxxcmwilliams: yes, where they are FROM
1 hr
  -> thks

agree  GILOU
18 hrs
  -> thks

agree  Frederic Rosard: oui!!
1 day 20 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
uk, non-uk
...employés au royaume-uni ou à l'étranger


Explanation:
Je pense qu'il ne s'agit pas de la nationalité des employés mais seulement du lieu de travail.

sylver
Local time: 06:38
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  xxxPFB: D'accord, mais "Royaume-Uni" (majuscules)
4 mins

agree  Merline
14 mins

agree  Tony M: Oui, tout à fait ! Bonne solution qui lève l'ambiguité !
14 mins

neutral  Christine HOUDY: au Royaume uni ou ailleurs
6 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
located in or outside the UK


Explanation:
Wel, I'm going to fly in the face of the majoirty here and say that, even though the expression is indavisedly ambiguous, I actually lean much more towards the geographic location interpretation.

For one thing, 'UK' is not officially a nationality, but a place. Officially, people would be British, or else English (etc.); the only real exception to this is usually when talking about 'UK citizens', for example.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to assume that they are talking about 2 different situations relevant to those employees working both within, or outside the UK, and I feel that the Race Relations Board might have something to say if we suggested different equity sharing arrangement for British and non-British nationals!

In the second occurrence, it seems to me even more clear-cut: obviously employers may be based in the UK or outside it; how otherwise could we interpret an employer as being non-UK — surely not by their nationality?! Especially since employers would be regarded as organisations rather than persons, and so not exactly have a 'ntaionality' as such — except in respect of where they are based!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2006-11-18 11:38:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

And of course, you wanted the French translation, and for me the "bottom line" as David puts it is that 'britannique' is NOT IMHO suitable, and I would stick to the R-U / hors R-U (which at least has the merit of retaining some of the original's ambiguity!)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2006-11-18 12:22:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

As I see it, they are talking about 4 possible permutations:

A UK-based company with staff working in the UK
A UK-based company with staff working abroad
A company based outside the UK, but with staff working in the UK
A company based outside the UK, where the staff also work outside the UK.

Of course' based' for the company and 'working' for the staff may not necessarily be where they physically are at any given moment in time, but simply where they are legally regarded as working for tax etc. purposes.

So I am a British national, working outside the UK, and paying taxes in France; to me, that makes me a 'non-UK freelancer'


Tony M
France
Local time: 00:38
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 21
Grading comment
Merci à tous, j'ai choisi cette réponse plutôt que celle de l'identité mais le client n'a tjrs rien confirmé...

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  xxxPFB
29 mins
  -> Merci, Philippe ! Je commençais à me sentir un peu seul...

agree  xxxCMJ_Trans: en Grande-Bretagne ou à 'étranger ( et ne hurlez pas - on emploie très souvent GB pour UK). En tout état de cause, ils veulent dire "at home or abroad"/L/ to KF - no-one said GB and Uk were synonyms - just that the French use GB more easily
41 mins
  -> Merci, CMJ ! Oui, en effet, l'usage est assez répandu... // C'est vrai, on voit GB bcp + souvent que R-U ; les français étant peut être moins sensibles à cette nuance... ;-)

agree  Kari Foster: Totally agree with all the above; and why introduce "GB" when we are talking about "UK"? They are not synonyms.//To CMJ: That is true, but I see no need to use a slightly less precise term in this case.
1 hr
  -> Thanks a lot, Kari! Yes, indeed... pourquoi chercher midi à 14 h ?

neutral  xxxcmwilliams: It's not clear-cut. Non UK can sometimes mean 'foreign' //sorry, but I don't agree that 'non UK' ALWAYS means not based in the UK//you can have non UK employees located in the UK - http://www.reeves-neylan.com/accountancy/Template.aspx?pid=1...
1 hr
  -> I don't think it's really an issue as far as 'company' is concerned, since they don't really have 'nationality': 'non-UK' means 'not based in the UK', and that's that // But surely (for companies) 'from other countries' = 'not based in the UK', doesn't it

agree  Assimina Vavoula: No comment...
3 hrs
  -> Efharisto, Npapad! ;-)

agree  Marc Glinert: I've tried Tony but I just can't see it from any perspective other than this one
2 days 2 hrs
  -> Thanks, Marc!
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
uk, non-uk
...


Explanation:
If possible, I would check with your client for the intended meaning.

I think 'non UK' is often another way of saying 'foreign', pertaining to nationality rather than location.

For example you can have non UK companies in the UK...

penetration of non-UK companies in the UK market has caused loss of market share in the UK for the UK company;. there is a growing threat to the market ...
www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200001/cmselect/cmtrdin...

Investment for the first time by non-UK companies in the UK Reinvestment by foreign owned companies situated within the UK Relocation into an area from ...
www.ashfield-dc.gov.uk/ccm/cms-service/download/asset/?asse...

Non-UK students studying in Canterbury. You are here: Kent home - newstudent - canterbury. Skip getting started navigation ...
www.kent.ac.uk/newstudent/canterbury/nonuk.html

Therefore, Nannytax has been greeted with considerable enthusiasm, initially from first-time employers and American and other non-UK employers working in ...
www.nannytax.co.uk/agencies/foryou.htm

Non-UK employers with branches in the UK, or UK companies operating abroad, need to exercise great caution before dismissing employees based outside the UK, ...
www.wilmerhale.com/publications/whPubsDetail.aspx?publicati...



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Note added at 4 hrs (2006-11-18 15:30:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Here are a few other examples where 'non UK employee' means foreign national...

Consequently, any non-UK employees would still tend to be based in the UK, and. would expect to earn salaries commensurate with their colleagues as they ...
www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/cap749.pdf

The most significant reasons for recruiting non-UK employees, according to respondents, were the availability of technical and language skills. ...
www.personneltoday.com/Articles/2005/06/14/30290/Overseas r...





xxxcmwilliams
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:38
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
uk, non-uk
au Royaume Uni ou ailleurs


Explanation:
Le Royaume Uni est composé de L’Angleterre, avec 83% de la population totale, est la nation du Royaume-Uni la plus peuplée (380 habitants par km2). L’Écosse, accueillant un peu moins de 9% de la population, est la moins densément peuplée (65 habitants au km2). Le pays de Galles et l’Irlande du Nord accueillent respectivement 5% et 3% de la population britannique (141 et 119 habitants par km2).


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day20 hrs (2006-11-20 06:59:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

pour expliquer que l'Irlande du Sud n'est pas comprise dans le Royaume Uni. Je pense que "ailleurs" est tout à fait approprié, pour éviter les polémiques qui amèneraient à dire que l'Irlande du Sud est considéré comme un "Pays étranger".


    Reference: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9mographie_du_Royaume-Uni
Christine HOUDY
France
Local time: 00:38
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
Notes to answerer
Asker: Pourquoi cette leçon de géographie qui n'a rien à voir avec le problème posé ?

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